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JocelynSamara — RAIN p459 - Parenting at its Finest
Published: 2014-02-09 23:08:08 +0000 UTC; Views: 14745; Favourites: 68; Downloads: 59
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I typed four separate blurbs here. I didn't like any of them. I have a lot I'd like to say, but I feel like there's nothing I should be saying. I really think it's Emily's job to do the talking in this case. And she talks quite a bit here.
People's reactions on Emily are quite divided lately (and I expected that), so let me ask: where do you stand? Is she being stupid or responsible? Is she being selfish or selfless? Is her conviction on this matter strength, or is it weakness? Share your thoughts, but let's maybe try to keep the flame wars to a minimum.
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Comments: 97
I admire Emily a great deal. Yes, she is a teenager, and yes she is ill-equipped to handle parent-hood... but she has conviction/strength/desire to be a good mother to her child. As long as you have those things, and love... I think she will do just fine.
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I just hope she can take care of it when it's born
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A child being wanted does not mean the parent is anywhere close to being capable of properly supporting themselves. While it IS brave to go through school and not abort the child, keeping it is a risky decision, especially at such a young age for her culture. Right now she sounds like she's keeping the child (after birth, unless this only covers until birth) only to prove to herself she is not her mother, which really isn't a very good reason to raise a child alone. I guess at the same time, adoption could be problematic, but a baby from a non-drug using white american with medical background would be way more likely to find a home than those from drug-using or drinking mothers who may have damaged their development. I would be just as cautious but way more okay with her choice if she didn't only want to go through with it out of spite for her mom.
So basically, good on her for taking responsibility for her actions, and at least having sympathy for this person because of her own experiences. That said, if she had a kind and supportive mother, would she have kept the baby?
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I really respect Emily for this decision. She is owning up to her "mistake" and facing it head on.
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I used to really not like Emily, but now she's growing to be one of my favorite characters. o O
WHOOOO!
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idk why but emily's baby bump looks unusually high up for me, or at least where she's holding her hand is
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While I do feel that from a practical stand point it would be better to terminate the pregnancy ultimately it's not my decision to make; everyone has the right to control their end of the reproductive process and we have to respect that decision regardless of our personal opinions. Ergo I respect her decision to keep it. As for the ethics involved... I'm not going to touch that
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dumb because i mean, being a teenager is hard enough without being an unplanned single mom, and i mean.. how does she plan to support it? hell, it's hard enough to even get a job these days. And i mean.. why give up your youth for a parasite born of a despicable ditching bum when you have so much else ahead of you and are still struggling to figure out life yourself? Misplaced selflesslness. Her conviction is misplaced strength turned into a weakening crutch tjhrough a sheer desire to prove her mother wrong.
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That is your opinion, and I will not fault it. I, for one, will wait for more pages before making a judgement. One think I will say however, is Fara's sarcasm is well placed.
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I can kind of see parallels between transsexualism and Emily's monologue in the first speech bubble in the sixth panel.
As for whether or not she should keep the baby, I guess it's really her choice.
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Well I really think that there are no definite answers here. But I think that she is strong for attempting to take care of a child in that situation because it is not going to be easy. Also she has the idea of her mom and she wants to be better than her, which means she has to be pretty bad, I think Emily would do much better.
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i'm hearing an echo with Emily.
Who says "i'm going to be an awful mom/dad"?
alot of us say "i'm not going to be like (fill in the blank)".
i think where we should examine her is on the execution of it, as in the end result.
if she can have and successfully raise a child, yayz!
but if she knows in herself she can't, well, she would have to measure that against her child's mortality versus her prospects.
what makes people think they are going to fail as a parent?
there are answers.
i think we should err on life's side, and ideally we should all plan well too.
i'm not a wild-stary-eyed-right-to-lifer but having kids is good.
how many other things can you say that about?
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Wow, Emily is being really responsible here. I think she will be a good mother.
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I am unsure if she is cuter or if the out fit is making her look cuter.
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I still believe that this is Emily's choice, and as far as I'm concerned, as long as she's aware that it's not going to be easy and is prepared to work for it (which does seem to the case here), I can accept her stance on this.
Also whilst it might sound a bit vindictive to some people, I can understand why Emily wants to avoid being like her mother, given her parenting style.
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While having a child that you want is no bad thing, Emily is kind of basing it on some bad reasons. Her mum became pregnant, but didn't want her, so Emily want to want her child to not be like her mum. Strong and a responsible position in regard to how she would treat a child, but still assumes that she can be a better parent. The thing is, a lot of cases of absentee parenting happen not because a parent is a bad person, but because they simply have to work all the time to afford basic necessities. Not to mention that the stigma of teen pregnancy and sex outside of arbitrary contracts is not an easy thing to live with, or even survive with.
Emily wants to do well, but I am not sure she actually can. She's a teenager in a strictly "sexuality is bad!" religious school with a mum who resents her and no way to really gain an income. It is pretty selfish to want to finish a pregnancy simply because you don't want to be like your mum (speaking as someone from a culture were abortion is not very stigmatised compared to the USA) without having plans for what to actually do beyond that. Without a plan and safety measures, she may well create someone to have to live in poverty with a parent who is always working to make ends meet and can never be there for that someone. It comes off a bit as if she has been convinced that she has to choose whether to ever be a parent now, with no chance of ever getting a child that was planned. In that case, it is entirely selfish to choose to create someone just because she wants to be a parent some day.
On the other hand, none of the limitations are Emily's fault. She is not the one who chooses that school and workplaces likely won't be accommodating or that there isn't a safety net to make sure children can get good parenting whether their parents are financially successful or not (assumption based on Americans that I know, since I am not American. Apologies if welfare is actually a viable option, I am not nearly as educated on that front as I should be. Sorry. m(_ _)m ). That, as well as the fact that her friends and specifically Fara (who is an adult beyond school with the stability in life to support and advise Emily) are at hand to help might mean that Emily could do it. I certainly don't doubt that she wants to and will do everything she can. If she has that support and has options for the future (because society letting parenthood prevent someone from getting an education or being able to have financial security is very horrible), then those problems may be perfectly tolerable. Plus, the school would probably be just as likely to punish her no matter what decision she made, with that principal and those rules about sexuality that we have seen. Eep. ._.
So, in conclusion: It is a bad motivation to finish the pregnancy because Emily wants to be unlike her mum (especially if her aversion to abortion is based on her mum's opinion), but it is her choice and if she has the support, options and can take the responsibility, then I support her decision. Hoping it goes well and that she receives much support and don't get attacked by people like the principal. ^_^
PS: Assuming Emily prefers she/her pronouns in-story. Apologies if it turns out to be wrong. ^_^'
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I agree with you on most of what you have said here, but as someone with female productive organs I have a VERY strong urge to play devil's advocate for a moment [by which I apparently mean for the next three paragraphs. sorry]:
First, Emily is a pregnant teen, and thus automatically tells you why it's not bad for her to do what she wants to do rather than why it's good. [Hence, 'I'm not going to do those awful things like my mom did' and 'I'm not in the situation she's criticizing me for' instead of 'I want to have this baby' or 'I personally believe that it is my responsibility, moral or religious, to go through with this, and would not be able to live with myself if I did not'].
Second, my mother was wealthy and devoted and present and an absolutely awful mother. My sister is poor and often absent because she's struggling to make ends meet, and she is a wonderful mother. Unless someone well and truly cannot manage to put food on the table and a roof over their head, I personally don't believe that finances are an automatic factor in whether or not you should abort a pregnancy [induce a pregnancy, perhaps, but I consider that another matter]. Emily seems to be building herself a support network, and strikes me as someone who would be more than dedicated enough to support herself.
Third, and this is in some ways the most interesting [at least, I'm enjoying trying to answer it] please come up with one really good reason to have kids that cannot easily be construed as either selfish or thoughtless when thoroughly explained. The only ones I can think of are rather dry, and never used. The desire for children is very often linked with the desire to augment a relationship, build a family, or find some sense of self-completion, all of which are equally selfish with proving you can do right by a child. And if you don't agree with me, please explain the desire for genetically related offspring, especially in an world of overpopulation? Or the desire for a baby rather than an adolescent if one does decide to adopt?
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Not entirely sure what having female reproductive organs has to do with it (Kind of a sore spot that I don't have them, being a trans woman and all), but I see nothing wrong with questions.
First: While I don't know any teenager who is pregnant, I don't see why that would make Emily more likely to do that, being a teenager myself (well, very late teens, but still). Emily certainly may have good reasons beyond wanting to not repeat what her mum did, but these are not as yet revealed in-story. I can't comment on any other reason because this is all there is so far presented by the story, thus I assume that is the basis of the judgement we are asked to make. If we only have Emily's arguments for why it is not bad, I worry that she is basing her decision only on those, specifically that her mum didn't want it. If Emily does have reasons beyond wanting to be different from her own parent, then I am very wrong about her reasons being selfish, but we don't see those at this point.
Second: My apologies for sounding as if finances are the end-all be-all. I was focused on the risks of Emily ending up not being able to manage food or housing or having to spend extreme amounts of time working to be able to afford it. These seem pretty high in this environment and country, from my perspective. That is the limited perspective of a Dane who only have income statistics and people's recounts of living in the USA to go on, though.
More or less, my issue is that it seems making her own support network is necessary for her to have a chance to be a good parent(With "always working" I was referring to cases where parents didn't even have off time enough to cook a meal, thus not having the time to interact with their child at all), whether or not she is dedicated. As I said, I agree that having a support network counteracts that and that none of this is Emily's fault, I'm just saying that she needs to have a way to secure that she can support a child. I was mostly worried that she seemed to focused on birthing a child, but hadn't talked much about what to do about the future beyond that. As I also said, I think that with people like Fara in her support network, she may well be able to do it, I may just be overly concerned due to the safety nets that are in place in Denmark, but seem absent in the USA (like free schooling up to and including university. In fact, we get paid to go here, rather than paying to be able to study).
Third: That would be difficult. Anything done is done because of some need or desire in the person doing it, be that empathy, hatred, fear, amusement or any other feeling. That doesn't mean we can't distinguish reasons for pregnancy based on altruistic reasons compared to primarily self-serving ones. If someone plans a pregnancy or is simply open to one at any point, that is fine, but this case is one where she evidently did not want it previously and was not ready when it happened. This may mean that Emily has reflected and decided that she is ready at this point (supported by her realising that her prior goals and motivations weren't right for her, thus making it likely that she has reflected on what may be worthwhile for her), but her stated reasons give the impression that it is primarily about her relationship with her own mother, making the child a metaphorical prize to show that Emily is better than this other person. This may very well not be the case or may change, but it was my impression from the comic that Emily is stating her reasons as if they are to one-up her mum, thus I was concerned on that ground. ^_^'
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Female reproductive organs are more of a personal reason than a general one. I'm a trans guy with a tendency to get on the bad side of radical feminists, and I pass well. As a man with the balls [or unfortunate lack there of] to defend men to women from time to time, this inevitably leads to my being called a misogynist [because sexism of the majority somehow justifies occasional gender based decision making and judgement by the minority? I don't get it]. Beyond being hilarious [and it is undeniably, inappropriately hilarious], the accusations in combination with my manually constructed feminine side's abandonment issues have lead to my compulsion to support women's choice and freedom beyond or even in contrast to my personal beliefs and assumptions regarding particular situations. Thus, despite my agreeing with nearly all of what you've said, I argue with you out of a personal recognition that my opinion is far removed and biased, that it is not my choice but hers, and that she undoubtedly has thoughts and feelings which I have not considered. [Which is not even remotely to say that I think expressing your opinion or that your opinion itself is somehow wrong. This is just how I personally foster my own awareness and consideration in response to haunting accusations that I'm a misogynistic bastard -.-]
So, obviously, I start speculating about the things she doesn't say
With regards to her being a teenager, I specifically meant her being a pregnant teen. Like in most places around the world, societal shaming of women for pregnancy outside of a relationship is immense, especially on teenagers these days when we consider the US. As someone barely out of the teens myself, I would think that for all the bravado she's carrying around, especially with how much time and energy she's put into social status, she's utterly terrified of what's going to happen when it get's out to the rest of her social circle. She's still hiding it despite the inevitable. With fear of judgement on the mind, one might defend against the perceived judgement of others rather than let the honest reasons out for further judgement.
As for finances, though the US may not have quite as many safety nets as some developed places, it's also not a place where a mother who wants to feed her child will find no options. I would also like to point out that we have no indication that Emily's mom will be kicking her out or something similar. Emily should have some time before she's out on her own to plan, and whether you're a teen or in your early thirties, coming to terms with the reality of being pregnant and beginning to share the news with your friends/family/peers seems like a valid enough reason to delay logistical thoughts for at least a little bit while you get your emotional shit together.
I also strongly suspect that Fara is going to be a guiding force in helping her realize and prepare for her upcoming responsibilities as a parent.
And I still say 'I want to do it better than my mom did' is pretty darn close to 'I want to do for someone else what my mom did for me,' the latter of which we find palatable. Rather than some ill-advised application of her desire to one-up her mother, it seems to me to be 'I'm going to provide this child with all the opportunities I didn't have, the ones that mattered more than the money.' Emily had all the grades, all the objects and materials at her feet, and all she wanted was a hug and good talk. And I think that's all she wants to give her little one.
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Jocelyn, you're a maestro when it comes to sailing taboo waters.
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Emily's decision to keep the baby or not keep the baby are irrelevant; Emily's reason, "Because my mom...," is wrong.
I never understood why my father was so "hands off" in raising me until I learned how "hands on" his father was in raising him.
It was a reaction, not a decision. Emily needs to decide what her own reasons are for herself.
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It's extremely common for kids to do things because they don't want to emulate things they didn't like about their parents.
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It does sound like she made the decision to keep her child because that is what she wants to do, not because her mother told her not to. In the end, she is just saying that she doesn't want to be like her mother, but her mother is not the reason why she wants to keep her child.
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At first, I was afraid that Emily didn't even consider to abort it.
I still don't agree with her choice she obviously made her choice after a lot of considerations. That's rare enough and I respect this very much. Especially as she doesn't base her choice on random doctrins but her own reasoning.
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*throws in a "but"*
One shouldn't comment in too early morning hours. ~_~
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lol, I agree, the later I stay up, the worse my grammar gets (when I type, not when I speak), lol, so if I am still chatting with someone at 2 in the morning, I start to sound like I am drunk, and I don't even drink any kind of libations at all.
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I think her choice is a strong one, maybe not the right one, but a strong one. Coming from a family where both me and my brother were adopted, i will say I am pro life. That said, choosing to have another human being is a very personal thing. I think it goes by situation. Emily is a strong willed character, so I think for her that choice is pretty apparent.
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that's the cutest and bravest thing i've read all day
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She's admirable for sticking to her guns. I think she's growing up a lot.
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Okay, so there are way more factors here that have yet to be outlined, but I'll try to make myself as clear as possible, anyway.
I think she's being responsible, in that she's undertaking the consequences of her actions and not just ignoring them. Depending on her financial security - where she'll go for/how she handles the prospect of the baby; how she plans on paying for the expenses of the pregnancy/birth, let alone the child once it's born; and what she does with herself after the fact (whether or not she plans to raise the baby herself or put it up for adoption) - are all factors that remain to be seen, as to whether or not I think the endeavor as a whole on her part is irresponsible or not.
I think she's being selfish, in that she is placing her experience with her mother over this particular pregnancy as her own, and not basing what she plans to do about the pregnancy instead on whether or not she is financially and emotionally equipped enough to give the fetus/born baby what it needs. On the other hand, I also think she's being selfless, because at the end of the day she's also recognizing that the fetus doesn't have a choice in the matter (even if its based, again, on her own experiences) - she's not taking the choice to live from a potential life before it's even gotten the chance.
Her conviction is a strength, definitely. Whatever she plans to do with the baby, she will do it with all of herself - and when it comes to a subject as weighty as another life, it is always important to be invested and firm about any decision, even if (from another point of view) it might not be the smartest one. She knows and will know, at the end of the day and for the rest of her life, that she did what she thought was for the best. Sitting on the fence is really never a good thing for issues like this, leaving the decision-maker with doubt and guilt and all kinds of self-aimed emotional issues afterwards, no matter what the end-result.
But, yeah, that's just my take on the thing.
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I like this. Even though a baby may not be planned for, that doesn't automatically mean that it isn't wanted.
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Being a latchkey kid, I already kind of identified with Emily. I mean clearly the whole Alpha Bitch thing is her presenting a Jerkass Facade...(I have got to spend less time at tvtropes.com...) But yeah, being an unwanted kid is never easy or enjoyable. My father, and I use the term with the most scathing contempt, pretty much told me to my face he didn't want me. Not to mention I was introducing him to someone I was dating at the time. (Not that whole dating thing went well, but that's a story for another day.) My mother was, and still is, too busy focusing on her career when she's not busy being a co-dependent nanny to whatever addict is in care at the moment.
Honestly though, mad props to her for the determinator in not taking the easy way out. Is she being selfish or selfless? Probably a little bit of both, from different perspectives. I once pointed out that it made sense to make Emily a Leo because she's rather prideful and maybe a tad arrogant at times. However, she is also quite magnanimous in nature when she wants to be. It plays into that whole defrosting ice queen aspect of her character. Not to mention that she and rain play off each other well, what with that whole Red Oni, Blue Oni thing they have going on.
Yeah, definitely less tvtropes. Definitely, definitely less...
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I think when a woman becomes pregnant, there is no easy "out". I have a friend, who at one point in her life became pregnant, and went through an operation for an abortion. As she described it to me, it was emotional in all the negative ways (fear, guilt, sorrow, shame) and then all pain from the operation she had to go through. And I think the people who can go through with it, and come out don't come out scarred in some way, never cared in the first place.
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NAO!
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ah, well, I've given her lots of virtual hugs, since she lives on the other side of the country from me.
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I kinda crave one of them real hugs. I don't get much of them.
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Well, I'm not sure if I will ever meet you irl, but if I do, I shall give you a hug. And if you think I won't, last year I hugged a teacher I dislike, all because a girl he was asking to hug him wouldn't and he turned to me, asked if I would hug him, so I did.
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hugs when done with good feelings, always feel good, for both the one giving, and hopefully for the one receiving.
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The first half of that makes me want to give you a hug.
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Thanks, I could definitely use more of those.
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Hugs be free, and the feeling they give are priceless
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Wow, her mother is a real bitch. I think Emily wants to be responsible. She made the choice to have sex and shes accepting the consequences of her actions. Shes gonna give that baby all the love it deserves. Honestly, it reminds me of one of my friends. She was a little older when she got pregnant (I believe about 18-19) but she went through with the pregnancy and now has a beautiful daughter. Shes 2 now and gets into everything lol. But shes just the cutest little thing, gonna be a heart breaker when shes older. So I say good on her, keeping the kid
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