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LeElf — Ikazuchi Question 2
Published: 2012-05-26 09:33:49 +0000 UTC; Views: 1840; Favourites: 14; Downloads: 60
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Part 2 of my attempt to answer the Ikazuchi Question. This is a concept that has it's origins in the way Gundam MS carrier launch and recover their MSs. A folding launch pad.In this case the foldout is more for the rapid recovery of Mecha, while the bow (and 6 Battloid hangars) would be for launching. The question is does it make sense for there to be two of these decks (1 on each side)?
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Comments: 23
A couple of suggestions should you use this (or any of the landing bay designs actually), maybe add anti-mecha turrets dedicated to keeping the approach path clear of hostiles and maybe a small bubble above or between the bays to act as an approach control room/tower.
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i get the feeling the answer is "the launch bays, while the alpha's are in guardian mode"
the LST types we see in new gen, with their rapid launch alpha bays for defense, could recover theirs using airlocks, while the carrier versions seen in tSC have both fighter bays and airlocks to work with.
personally i'm a fan of the "Skyhook" [ [link] ] approach.. fly up near an airlock, match speeds and course, and let a mechanical arm grab you and pull you in.
sort of the reverse of the Macross DYRL Valkyrie launch.. [ [link] , [link] , [link] - starting at 2:16], an idea that wound up in robotech via the non-canon "covert ops" comic.. where the DYRL system was added to the Prometheus carrier-arm of the SDF-1 [ [link] ].. apparently that whole comic used DYRL stuff whole cloth, including extensive use of FAST packs long before they actually were developed by the official timeline.
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They could use a skyhook set up but I imagine it would be very slow recovery, probably reserved for routine patrol launches/recoveries and for craft that can't land for whatever reason.
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also, Harmony gold was apparently planning to use a skyhook approach in their "robotech 3000" show [ [link] ].. their original plan for a robotech sequel that they dropped in favor of Shadow Chronicles.
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This would be especially good if the Ikazuchi is having to retreat from the battlefield. I think having recovery on both sides would definitely speed up operations, especially when they will have to pick up the squadrons from other Ikazuchi, Garfish, or Horizont.
Is there a crash barrier system just in case a fighter is damaged or slides on the landing runway? Or maybe in case they have to land several fighters without enough time for them to land and clear before the next ones touch down.
Have you considered putting a retractable runway between the decks which could extend straight out for use with the upper deck, giving them two more runways in an emergency?
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haven't come up with a crash barrier. Using the side approach with the fold out landing deck, the go around would be most likely. But a Glitterboy pointed out, matching velocities would liekly be an intergral part of this method. From the standpoint of anyone viewing this type of recovery from the deck it might even seem as though any craft landing on the portside deck would in fact be coming to a hover. This would be the safest least dynamic method.
However in true military fashion coming aboard with SOME forward momemntum would certainly be more expeditious and would allow for the recovery of several craft in rapid succession. It is a trade off. To operate LOTS of mecha, as the Ikazuchi clearly does, you have to have an efficient method of doing so. Coming to a hover just isn't efficient, just ask any Harrier pilot.
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Do the telescoping sections spring up and lock into place after extending to make the runway level, because I would think two unlevel seams could potentially be a hazard especially if landing under combat conditions.
Have you thought about making the runway turn 180 degrees, or would that be too complicated?
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Ignore my last post. I just realized the runway folds out like a ramp LOL
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I would think that a space carrier would not need a complicated landing deck to recover their fighters. Matching speeds isn't a problem since there is no stalling in space. They could also recover in guardian or battloid mode. I suppose there could be the occasional need for some kind of emergency recovery if a fighter was damaged and couldn't change modes or decelerate in fighter mode.
I do like how your scheme allows for waving off of a bad approach (is there such a thing in the future?).
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Well, this concept of course has a certain "cool factor". in the original Macross series Veritechs recover to the Prometheus in the traditional CV pattern using arresting gear an all the bells and whistles. That certainly isn't necessary given what we know about space flight today, but the series designers thought it would be cool. And it is. The other thing to consider is how efficient is it to recover a Mecha in Battloid mode? Particularly the Alpha and Beta, as entry and exit for the Mecha seems more complicated for the pilot in those modes. Unlike the VF-1 where the seats just run up the rail out of the head area.
Logistically, rearming and refueling Mecha might be best suited to the Fighter mode no? not to mention the Figther mode seems to be more compact. Any Mecha recovered in Battloid mode would likely need some sort of support gantry or even a transformation support system to then be configured as a fighter within the ship, or else it might be stuck in Battloid mode until it next launches.
Wave off opportunities are good thing, especially in training. No one is perfect, and not accounting for the ability to take it around and try again isn't very good design.
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logistically, guardian mode is better for rearming alpha's. in fighter mode the 16 missiles housed on the 4 bays on the outer shin's of the mecha (2 per side) are tucked up inside the fuselage due to the way the legs fold into place. in guardian mode all the missile bays are exposed (the 3 bays of 4 per legs, 2 outer one inner, the bays of 8 in each shoulder, and the bays of 10 in each forearm), plus new gunpods can be picked up by the fighter itself.
fighter mode is the most compact though. a mecha that is recovered in battloid mode could convert to guardian mode easily.. though to convert to fighter mode the mecha would have to kick in its belly thruster and hover at least 8ft off the deck to let the legs shift properly. or be stuck in an area with no artificial gravity, so it could float without using thrusters.
frankly though, we see in the Macross saga that the hanger bay of the Prometheus is apparently fitted with ceiling attachments to allow fighters to be lifted via cables [ [link] ], and it's just a converted wet navy carrier, so it's not a big stretch to assume that the purposed built starships of the southern cross and new gen eras were created with similar attachment points, and possibly mechanical cranes and such as well to help move fighters around the bay.
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I agree. At first I thought that the outer leg missile bays might be accessible in fightermode, but from a design standpoint, you want a tight fit there to give F-mode strength, so it is possible that they are in fact inaccessible.
To you second point I alos agree that to support all three modes a substantial infrastructure would be necessary abord the Ikazuchi to service all her Mecha in all the various modes. Guardian does seem to be the best all around mode, but there would likely be good reasons for the Mecha to be in F-mode too, not to mention the obvious, well-documented Battloid mode for the six Multiple launchers on the hull.
It has been mentioned elsewhere that the Ikazuchi was a 1 way ticket, and while that makes sense in the MOSPEADA story, it doesn't in RT. Even in MOSPEADA it is incredibly short sighted...
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I don't recall seeing pilot entry in battloid mode, but it must be simple enough given the battloid launch bays. I'm not sure where all the missile bays are in each mode, but weapons loading seems doable if it stands in mecha bays with multi level access platforms. They would need these to maintain/arm non-transformable mecha anyway. The weapons seem to be smaller than today's heavy missiles/bombs. The Earth guerrilla forces seemed perfectly capable of rearming their fighters missiles without special equipment.
If the hanger bays are sized for standing battloids, it makes more sense to be able to service/arm them too. Otherwise, there would seem to be a lot of wasted volume in the bay. Bays of this height would also make it possible for battloids to defend the ship's interior should the enemy get into the hanger rather than rely on Cyclones or handheld weapons.
In Countdown, they did show a battloid transform into a guardian while stationary on the ground. Don't know if it can get to a fighter though.
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For ejections, the small wings unfold as the nose pops up 90 degrees, the canopy blows off, the pilot's seat drops down on an arm, then a rocket pack pulls it past the arm and clear.
I'm guessing the pilot would use the same procedure just a whole lot slower and without the rocket pack snatching the seat off the arm. It would probably be a pain to climb down and they would need the extra space for the nose to fold up and back down.
I suspect the pilots enter in guardian mode, transform to battloid, are lifted up or over to the launch slot, they climb in, then a mechanism pushes them into the launch position. I'm sure they practice this a whole lot otherwise it could probably end up wasting a lot of time when the are loading the launchers.
RSC changed the battloid launchers into battlestar galactica fighter launch tubes, not sure if all Ikazuchi's were retconed this way or if we are supposed to believe they had both in TNG.
It should be no problem for a battloid to land and take off from the runways and bays. If a bay isn't tall enough he can just change modes.
If they are landing or relaunching a bunch at one time using guardian would probably be the preferred mode.
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That sounds like an incredibly complicated ejection sequence that violates the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) design principle. I imagine there would have to be a space mode and atmospheric mode for ejection. For space, it would make more sense to jettison the cockpit section whole so that the pilot would have a lifeboat to protect against the cold, heat, radiation, and vacuum of space.
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Indeed. Come to think of it I have seen some pre-production art that implies a regular exit for the Alpha in Battloid...
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Also got to thinking that the Zentraedi ships could spew out a lot of battle pods through simple hatches. Battloids/guardians could do this too. Kind of analogous to paratroopers lining up in an aircraft leaping out the doors in quick succession.
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Actually yes it does. If there's a recovery pod on each side of the ship then they can send half of the ship's fighter compliment to each one, reducing landing congestion. That way you can speed up the recovery and move on the next sortie.
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Yep this would double it's efficiency! I haven't decided though if it is entirely necessary yet. Particularly in light of the possibility of an aft recovery hangar such as the one I have pictured in IKAZUCHI Question. At what point do you have too many recovery methods?
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You probably have too many recovery options when you have more options than planes. XD
Though some may call that debatable still since redundancy is something you'd want very, very much in a military craft.
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An Ikazuchi most likely has at least 156 [2x30 & 4x24] quick launch (battloid) bays. Both 24 and 30 battloid bays have been identified in the animation, which suggest 2 of one and 4 of the other. PW Walker argued that if you carefully observe each side on shot of the Ikazuchi in the animation there is alway 1 slightly longer bay and two the same length.
Anyway, my point is there is a lot of fighters that are supposed to return plus fighters from other destroyed vessels. Ikazuchi = 156+, Garfish = 12+, and HorizonT = 1 Alpha/Beta.
I don't see why they wouldn't have different options if they don't interfere with normal operations, although they would probably only use one at a time unless of an emergency or after combat.
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