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Ragnar949 In reply to undefinedreference [2015-02-15 20:40:10 +0000 UTC]

or where their victims end up.

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undefinedreference In reply to Ragnar949 [2015-02-17 09:13:50 +0000 UTC]

One man's bottom is another man's peak? I used to have quite a volume of gold. I didn't buy it out of speculation, it just seemed a good way of saving since the price, at that time US $300 per ounce, couldn't seem to go any lower. Back then, 2004/5 or so, I used to be laughed at for telling people I didn't trust banks, haha! And of course the price of gold skyrocketed after that. But the really weird and in more then just some sense immoral thing about gold is that when you have it, unlike with shares, you develop an interest in stuff going wrong, and the more wrong things go and the more misery, or threat thereof, hits humanity, the better you will fare financially. Like when Turkish troops invaded Iraq and people were talking about WWIII, the gold price instantly went up by $100.  And every time Ahmadinejad held one of his Destroy Israel speeches there was a noticeable surge as well. My gold did allow me to live completely independently for two years after I lost my job, but In the end I was glad to have gotten rid of it. It was just too weird, cashing in on other peoples' fear and misery.

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Ragnar949 In reply to undefinedreference [2015-02-17 12:58:09 +0000 UTC]

Interesting, I've never really thought about that aspect.  Now I understand why FOX "news" pushes gold buying (by a corrupt company). What could be more fitting, profiting off of others misery it seems is very respected in some right wing circles.

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undefinedreference In reply to Ragnar949 [2015-02-17 22:13:52 +0000 UTC]

I guess the gold trade has been increasingly panicking over slipping gold prices during the past two or three years, so it makes sense for them to hire their FOX buddies to help them scare an already naturally frightened part of the American audience into buying more of the stuff. I read about Goldline, it does seem rather fraudulent and deceptive, but no more than the respectable TelSell-like industries to be honest. I personally still hate AstroTV and their semi-live phone medium consulting sessions more.

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Ragnar949 In reply to undefinedreference [2015-02-21 03:06:14 +0000 UTC]

I can't speak directly to other countries and their issues because my understanding is very limited, only to "news."   I do know that in this country the average citizens are really only regarded as consumers and potential votes.  We  really are little else.  Former Monsanto execs in Department of ag and food and drug are in charge of "Oking" or denying GMOs, labeling etc.  The same guys allowed all the man made crap we call "food additives," the very things Europe has outlawed.  Some always will blame government.  I actually don't, I blame a system that the lobbyists penetrated in the late seventies and eighties, now it's pretty much complete with industry able to give all the money they want.   It's not government, it's greed and the lies that we all will fail if the big guys don't get their way.  It's been an incredible con job that I've been watching happen.  Hold on to your seat.

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undefinedreference In reply to Ragnar949 [2015-02-24 22:16:10 +0000 UTC]

I'm not sure it has ever been any different. Back in the 17th century, Holland's Golden Age, the country was ruled by the big trading companies and no one else. Only until quite recently the deals were made on the golf courses and in the smoking rooms, entirely out of sight of a completely unaware public. Now we have sort-of of official lobbyists whose whereabouts at least under oath, and with records being kept, are kind of traceable. At least we know that all this lobbying is taking place and politicians aren't only driven by the interests of those they're supposed to represent. So that's progress.

I do see politicians and governments as the punch bags of the corporations, and I'm surprised about what those corporations can get away with, probably because they also happen to be the employers of the chronically discontent and outraged. Bashing politicians and government is so much easier, especially when they don't happen to be the ones who feed you. And why do politicians put up with this? Well, because each of them counts on the fact that one bright and sunny day they will be offered a seat in a fancy corporation boardroom, where they can start seriously cashing in. Not that they're guaranteed to ever get there, of course, the companies will only accept the thoroughly combat proven ones, those who can talk themselves out of anything. The ones who can sell you shit bricks for diamonds.

I  don't know about the US, but here in Holland politicians are considered failed when they end up at NATO or the World Bank or the UN, in some high-profile high-status job that pays no more than a crappy army general salary however. The successful ones typically find their way to Shell or ING or some other bank or multinational. Out of sight, out of mind(*). And let the cash start rolling in

(*) especially useful if you've spent your political life as a leftie politician agitating against the filthy rich!

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Ragnar949 In reply to undefinedreference [2015-02-25 14:04:26 +0000 UTC]

That's how the world has always turned and always will.  Stephan Hawking recently said that aggression is our worst trait or something.  I wouldn't argue physics with him, but I think envy and greed cause the most harm to the individual and society.

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undefinedreference In reply to Ragnar949 [2015-02-27 17:52:19 +0000 UTC]

Those who look upon themselves as non-aggressive are the ones I trust least..

Btw if Hawking honestly believes that the Key To Everything is just around the corner then he truly is either the most highly overrated scientist of our time or a complete fraud. Or maybe it's more of a gimmick of his for getting continued attention and thus funding - at least "the general public" seem lo love the idea. To me it seems like the modern-day variant of the Hermetic Universe and the Harmony of the Spheres. And I also happen to deeply distrust anyone who pursues any kind of harmony.

(an illusion of harmony can be achieved though, but only by applying a firm degree of suppression, for at its deepest roots existence is perfectly dissonant by nature. Or something)

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Ragnar949 In reply to undefinedreference [2015-03-04 15:11:56 +0000 UTC]

Hawking and many others see the expression of aggression and mistake it for the "source" instead of understanding that "aggression" is but an (usualy) inappropriate expression of other emotions that come from greed, self pity, and blame.

There is nothing to "suppress," it's a matter of taking responsibility for our own stupidity and thoughtless actions.  Suppression just warps one more.

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undefinedreference In reply to Ragnar949 [2015-04-16 20:39:12 +0000 UTC]

Hawking has no concept of a "hostile environment".

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