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Published: 2012-09-24 17:22:06 +0000 UTC; Views: 5203; Favourites: 70; Downloads: 51
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Brilliant. Read the entire article here [link]PS: No rape apologism/victim blaming nonsense over here, be constructive and civil. Or don't bother commenting.
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Comments: 231
Agreed. Living as a woman is no way to live.
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People who say "rape culture is real" probably have never experienced rape themselves.
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That's true of most people, I fail to see what point you're trying to make.
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Let me put things in perspective here. Telling someone not to kill isn't going to stop them from killing people, likewise telling people not to rape isn't going to stop someone from raping someone else. As misanthropic as this may sound it's human nature and that's never going to change. Β
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So what you are saying is:
There is no hope.
There is no respite.
There is only RAAAAAAAAPE!!!!
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It'd be interesting have same kind of studies that are being done into the pathology and origins of serial killers be done about rapist. Since if we really want to stop rapes we need to understand how a rapist is even created. Cos lets face it takes a certain kind of mind to cause that kind of pain to someone. But as long as the conversation remains as superficial as it is now, we aren't gonna be able to figure that out.
Right now we talk about clothes and drinking. While risk behavior can lead to well being at more risk it isn't the central cause, since if it wasn't that person it'd just be someone else. At rapist end we talk about victimology and attack style. Sometimes talking about how porn and the media create them, but thousand, millions of people consume those things and don't get their heads screwed by it, so there must be something different going on the brain of the rapists. What happens in the past of this individual to make him/her want to do this to someone? I think it's a rather interesting question...
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No matter what a woman (or man for that matter) wears, says, does etc. no deserves rape, and it's most certiantly not their fault. Rape isn't even about sex for the most part. Most rapists do it for power and violence. They want to feel stronger than their victims and want to hurt them.
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"deserve" is right up there with "should," in that they are both completely moot in any discussion about any crime.
As for rape not being about sex, you are wrong. I know that its the oft repeated common knowledge, but as i like to tell people, common knowledge is a synonym for "shared ignroance."
Rape is about sex: Sex is rapes main predominate motivator among the majority of every day rapists, since the majority of rape is association rape, not stranger rape.
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Okay, so are you saying its perfectly fine for people to rape others? So you wouldn't care if someone raped you or someone close to you since they MUST have done something to cause it?
Just because it's usually association rape doesn't mean they do it because they want that person or are turned on by them. They want to control and hurt them and make them feel dirty and worthless. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. I've studied a bit in that field.
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"Okay, so are you saying its perfectly fine for people to rape others?"
No, i think you might be missing the point. As i said "deserve" is right up there with "should," in that they are both completely moot in any discussion about any crime. Nobody deserves to get raped, just like no one deserves to be honeless & starve, no one deserves to be robbed, no ones deserves to be shot, no one deserves to be a victim of crime... An yet we also know that those things continue to happen & will never cease to happen. So "deserve" is right up there with "should" as moot points that have nothing to do with this conversation.
"Just because it's usually association rape doesn't mean they do it because they want that person or are turned on by them"
Actually thats exactly what it means. There is a reason why straight people rape people of the opposite sex, gay people rape people of the same sex & rape is more likely to occour to somewhat attractive people. Its also the reason why rape by a foreign object is not the predominate form of rape.
"Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. I've studied a bit in that field."
Thats nice, you've studied a bit, i've studied a lot & i'm telling you that you happen to be wrong.
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It has everything to do with the conversation when they are saying that the rape victims cause it to happen.
And explain the cases where a gay man rapes women. It has happened.
Do you have a degree? (just curious)
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"It has everything to do with the conversation when they are saying that the rape victims cause it to happen."
Except that no one has said that. The statement has always been "there are actions people can take that mitigate there risk of becoming a victim of crime" & rape is no different.
In fact there is a great ink blot test for that statement. I'll posit a situation & you tell me if you think its a good or bad idea
Situation: A woman goes to a seedy bar on her own, drinks until she is black out drunk, flashes have there bar & goes home with a random stranger."
Is this a good or bad idea?
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Pretty much the same thing.
And that's a bad idea, but different. If she willing goes home with them and has sex that's not rape. And if she gets rape while drunk its not different than being raped sober. It's still wrong and not her fault.
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"Pretty much the same thing."
Nope, not even nearly, an frankly if you can't tell the difference, you may not be intelligent enough to continue discussing this with. You may lack the fundemental basic understanding necessary to grasp the nuance involved.
"And that's a bad idea, but different. If she willing goes home with them and has sex that's not rape."
Actually it is rape: Its called statutory rape.
"And if she gets rape while drunk its not different than being raped sober. It's still wrong and not her fault."
Thats wasn't the question, the question was "was her actions a good idea?" So answer the question. In the posited example were the actions performed by the woman a good idea or not.
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I'm plenty intelligent. You dot understand what I'M saying. And using big words doesn't make you sound smart. Well, if you don't want to continue talking to me, don't reply. I don't care either way. I know what I'm talking about. You do have some good points too, I'll admit. But, I think we are not on the same page and aren't talking about the same case.
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I noticed you failed to answer the question again.
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You failed to answer my questions. What question did I not answer?
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the question was "was her actions a good idea?" In the posited example were the actions performed by the woman a good idea or not.
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I answered that. Reread my response.
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I said no it's not a good idea, but if they get raped while drunk its not their fault regardless
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"I said no it's not a good idea, but if they get raped while drunk its not their fault regardless"
An yet you recognise its a bad idea: WHY is it a bad idea?
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Because when you are drunk you do whatever your first inpulse is without thinking about the consequnces.
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No, thats not it. In fact it almsot seems like you are trying to not answer this question properly because you can see where the chain of logic goes.
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That's the truth. You can look it up if you don't believe me. I can admit when I'm wrong, but yet I won't back down if I'm right
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"You can look it up if you don't believe me"
Its not that you are wrong about what you said, so much as you are wrong about it being the reason why the hypothesised scenario is dangerous.
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Why would you say it was then?
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Because of negative consequences such as being raped... You know, the thing we are discussing.
But lets stick to your idea: Being drunk means bad things can happen... So what you seem to be saying is that there is in fact an action a woman could take to mitigate her own risk level, such as not getting completely shit housed on wine coolers.
Funny because thats what i've been saying for pages. There are actions women can take to mitigate there own risk of victimisation... Assigning blame doesn't even come into it.
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And my original comment was about blame not precaution
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Should anyone be mugged if they wears a Rolex watch while walking at night? Should they be blamed for wearing that watch instead of a regular watch?
Think about it...
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As i told you already, should doesn't come into it: "More likely" does however come into it.
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It's still in the same context: rapists lack self control.
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Not at all: You are using the word "should" when should doesn't come into it at all.
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Saying that a lady should get raped because her clothing provokes rapist is like saying that a man should get mugged because his brand new Rolex watch provokes muggers. It's both stupid and it shows that they lack self-control, how do you know understand that?
No one is an object: we're all humans.
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An again you've gone back to this whole "should" statement. Should does not come into it.
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Whatever, I don't want to bother with apologists.
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Its got nothing to do with being an apologist & everything to do with being a realist. After all the first step in mitigating any risk is first recognising the limits of the risk. Because running around telling women there is nothing they can do doesn't reduce the likely hood of rape, it just makes for more compliant victims.
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you missed the apostrophe... Since obviously you were tying to ask the question: Who're
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Of course words are being used to dictate what women wear, drink & when they travel... Its called common sense. Rape is a crime, no crime has ever been eradicated through education or punishment, the only time any particular crime stops existing is when the construct of its existance ceases to exist. What does this mean for rape? It means that until human beings become a species capable of breeding asexually there will be rape. Enforcement of law only works after the fact, blaming all men for rape with "only men can stop rape" campaigns just pissess off men who don't rape, but are sick of being asked to stop something that we've already established to will never be stopped... Only real thing we can do at this point in time, is to teach women to use there brain to mitigate there own risk level.... Same as we do with literally every other crime. No, changing your attitude & manner of dress won't stop rape, neither will locking your car doors stop car theft... But it certainly makes one a more hardened target. Social responsibility, its about time women took a hand in there own protection.
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The way you dress will not affect you getting raped or not. Rape happens to ANYONE! Women, men children and even *shutters* animals. How someone is dressed has nothing to do with that, rapists just like to use that as an excuse. Instead of teaching "Don't get raped." we need to teach "Don't rape." Women should not be restricted on how they dress or look because of rape. Women should not have to live in fear because society will not tell men to control themselves or to keep their dicks in their pants. Women should not have to restrict themselves on their clothes because of rape. Rape needs to end, not skippy clothing. Stop making excuses for rapists.
And what about men that are raped? Why not say, "It's about time men took a hand in their own protection."?
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"The way you dress will not affect you getting raped or not. Rape happens to ANYONE!"
Actually it will Riza. Even stranger rape, such rapists pick targets based on personal sexual preference. So if you are wearing something in which you are literally popping ones tits out of, you are going to attract negative attention. An if there is a rapist in that group you've just put yourself on there radar.
Sure clothing doesn't cause rape, rapists do: But anything one can do to not overtly put oneself on there radar is a plus.
"Instead of teaching 'Don't get raped.' we need to teach 'Don't rape.'"
We already teach dont rape, we should also be teaching don't get raped... Kind of like we do for literally every other crime. After all, constantly telling women that there is nothing they can do to mitigate ones own risk of rape, doesn't decrease the likelyhood of rape, it just beuilds more complient victims.
"Women should not be restricted on how they dress or look because of rape."
No, you are right: Women should be restricted on how they dress on the basis of common sense & being socially aware. After all women are grown adults & not over grown children.
"Women should not have to live in fear because society will not tell men to control themselves or to keep their dicks in their pants."
An you've just made the ultuimate attribution error. Men is not a synonym for rapists: Men don't rape, rapists rape. An there isn't a rapist alive who is raping, unaware that its wrong. The fact is that there has never been any sort of crime through out human history in which we have eradicated that crime through education or punishment.
As such rape will always exist, an since we know this, women should be taking an active hand in there own protection: Because its the ultimate female social privilege to be able to say without irony "my personal safety is the responsibility of others." Who are these others exactly who's responsibility it is to protect you? The rapist who wants to rape you?
"And what about men that are raped? Why not say, 'It's about time men took a hand in their own protection.'?"
we already do say that: in fact thats all we ever tell men.
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You are literally suggesting that men are little more than morons that think with their penises and can't help it when a women in skimpy clothing walks by. So therefore, it is in their nature to rape women and women have to accommodate the idiotic men that think with their penises by wearing burqas and shit.
It's actually not the feminists who are misandrists. It's the manbaby right's activists that promote the idea of men being some dudebro that can't keep it in their pants.Β
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"You are literally suggesting that men are little more than morons that think with their penises and can't help it when a women in skimpy clothing walks by."
I'm suggesting nothing of the sort: Your error comes in your conflation with the words rapistsΒ & men. So you have two groups, rapists & men, out of these two groups which one is defined as "people who rape?" I'll give you a little clue, it's not the group known as men. This is why my statement reads & I quoted "An if there is aΒ RAPIST in that group you've just put yourself on there radar." It's also why I did not say "An if there is aΒ MAN in that group you've just put yourself on there radar." Because men & rapists are not synonyms for each other.
Honestly I can't believe you just wrote an entire replay making exactly the ultimate attribution errorΒ that the thing you are replying to clearly spells out that you shouldn'tΒ make & why you shouldn't make it. So either you are a moron or youΒ didn't read what was written, i'll let you decide which you are, I wouldn't want to presume to guess which.
Β "It's actually not the feminists who are misandrists."
Yes, yes it is. It's also feminists who apparently fail at basic reading comprehension.
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I'm not saying that all men are rapists. What I am saying is that toxic masculinity encourages "dudebro" behaviors that encourage rape and it also harms men since men being raped is not seen as "macho".
And women are raped more often than men. Discussing the fact that in America, 27.2% of women have been sexually harassed and 18.3% have been raped, and 11.7% of men have been sexually harassed and 1.4% raped at least once in their lives does not mean anyone thinks that specifically men are more to blame. Also note that rapes are often underreported so these stats could actually be higher.
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"I'm not saying that all men are rapists. What I am saying is that toxic masculinity encourages "dudebro" behaviors that encourage rape and it also harms men since men being raped is not seen as "macho"."
No you aren't saying anything, you are simply making noise that has absolutely no bearing on this conversation whatsoever: You commented either WITHOUT reading or worse yet comprehending what was written, making yourself look utterly foolish in the process. An now you are looking for a way for your to extricate your foot out of your mouth were you firmly lodged it.
"And women are raped more often than men."
No actually they are not: When you include jail house rape male victims of rape out number female victims, however this is still entirely immaterial to THIS conversation since the number of whichever group raped has no bearing on taking steps to reduce your own likeability of being one of those victims, just as you reduce the likelihood of being the victim of any crime. Now how about you stop commenting on this one before you get so much of your foot in your mouth that you find you are missing one leg entirely?
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You didn't even address my comment and you ignored the stats I showed you.
Stop making excuses for rapists.Β
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"You didn't even address my comment and you ignored the stats I showed you."
I didn't address your comment because it has nothing to do with this conversation & as such is 100% immaterial to this conversation. No what you are trying to do is to start a new unrelated argument, since you so badly shit the bed on this one.
You appear to have shoved your foot in to your mouth so much that you've devoured one entire leg, are you really this intent on devouring the other leg too?
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