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RenOokami — FE: Charioteer study
Published: 2014-10-14 19:20:18 +0000 UTC; Views: 1002; Favourites: 9; Downloads: 15
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Description
According to Kramgnauh 's comment on my version of his charioteer, my upgrades were too close and looked like recolors, so I spent an hour trying to create new variations to get a true feeling of upgrade between the units.O: Original Charioteer by Kramgnauh
1: My first attempt, basic unit using a classical solider.
2A: The unit got a better chariot and I got back to the original horse headgear.
2B: The unit get a decorative part on the helm, andmore gold-like colors on the chariot
2C: New decorations on the chariot, yellow gold of the horse gear became white gold.
3A: Larger chariot based on models O and 1, white gold on horse gear and unit's shield.
3B: Larger chariot based on model2B, same as model 3A for all other freatures.
EDIT: I don't know where goes the second half of the description, but anyway I write it again.
Here is my critique request, I have done those six variations but there are only three what can be kept for the class tree, so what is the better choice ? Personally, I think that "1, 2A, 2C" is good if we want to keep the same sprite size, and "1, 2B, 3A" is better if we focus in the visual impact, but maybe I am wrong. So, comment if you want to say what is your point on this question, or if you find that something else can be changed to improve the samples.
NOTE: I know these sprites look like a step by step, but they are no tutorial, just a personal study on the Charioteer sample.
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Comments: 12
Au moins les soldats en imposent comme ça... Au lieu de balancer des coups de lance à tout va, ils écrasent leurs adversaires... ^-^
Et ils peuvent suivre la mode en changeant de masques leurs amis les chevaux... 8D
Très beau sprite en tout cas !
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Il y a deux types de "chariots". Ce transporteur, qui peut secourir jusqu'à 5 unités pour passer les troupes dans de petits passages (principalement une unité ennemie qui transporte l'infanterie) et le modèle O (d'un autre artiste, avec qui j'ai collaboré pour ce transporteur) qui attaque comme tu dit. Vu que leurs sprites de la map sont tres proche, ça risque de causer quelques surprises. ^^
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Thanks, and as you can see in the comments, we're still talking about the consepts and designs, but yes. As support unit the "war wagon" will only have a dodge attack, but we may do another "charioteer" (closer to the base) for a separate attacker class. However, I can't say if the sheets will be done soon, as I am working on other projects too.
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Just want to start off saying this is already a great looking sprite.
Now if I'm reading this correctly, these sprites are supposed to be for a class that has three tiers, yeah? If that's the case you most likely want to make sure the first tier looks as basic as possible, with a blander more washed out palette. example 1 does this quite nicely.
The second tier should have a more vibrant palette with more trim present on the armored bits and more armor in general. My suggestion here would be to swap out the cavalier horse for the paladin horse. As noted before me the chariot itself could have some more armor to it. If you don't want to do that you could still add some fancy bits wherever there's metal attached to the wood or other bits of metal. It's hard to describe, but think of the way corners were made on old wooden chests. They always had separate metal boots specifically for the corners. the same could be applied to where the spools of the wheels meet with the outer rim. Lastly, you gotta add spiked axles and all-terrain spiked wagon wheels if you're looking to spice it up. The wood of the chariot could also be painted, maybe a nice white to match the paladin horse you may or may not have added by now.
As for the third tier... I haven't played many Fire Emblem games that have third tiers, and the few I have weren't sprite based. I'd suggest checking out the details and differences third tiers have to second tiers and replicate some of those nuances. Maybe colors go nuts, more trim and decorative feathers than a peacock, or the horses grow wings or something outrageous. Overall what's expected of the first two tiers is pretty rigid, so the third tier can allow for some creativity. If there aren't already strong archetypes for what constitutes the 'look' of a third tier, maybe you could set those into motion.
All in all I think if you can't look at a random sprite out of these and immediately, clearly tell which tier it is without question, there's something wrong with the design.
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Well, if you take as units the 1, 2B and 3A it is still noticiable, but maybe this class will have only 2 tier (still have to work on the consepts). You and Kramgnauh are right about how I got not far enough in custom this time, but is was a quick try so I'll do it more seriously next time.
It is a transporter-like unit, but specialized in saving units, not an attacker, in the version I made. It can't attack, but run 7 squares and can save/drop multiple times during their move time. The maximum actions are 2/4/6 and maximum units transported are 2/3/4, depending on the tier.
It is intended as ennemy unit, a sort of reinforcement for the imperial army, to make pass large number of soliders trough small zones. Your idea is more like Kramgnaugh's base sprite. As you can see the comments, mine will probably be renamed "War chariot", but your idea is great for an attacker version, what will be based on the original charioteer this time. Two units looking close in the map, but with completly diferent roles.
It can be interesting in strategy since if you rush you may miss that you're attacking a strong unit instead of the convoy. One of the consepts I really don't know still, is if when you defead him all units inside dies, or if it release them in adjacent squares. I'll try to apply some of your tips on the new charioteer, since this one only need more "fancy" details to make the tiers look diferent. Also, the 3rd tier for all classes is one of my projects, expending the FE8 class tree in a balanced version. So, maybe the charioteer/War chariot will be 2 and 3 "secret tiers" of the cavalier, or separate units.
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I assume you're using something different than a gba rom for this, otherwise this would require a heck of a lot of advanced techniques (prbly ASM hacks). Even if you do have the ability to modify the code it would be tricky to have a unit that can carry more than one other. You can't guarantee there'll be enough room for the units to pile out if the chariot dies so it would be less buggy to have all of them die instead. However that leaves a bad taste in the mouth, so to speak.
Maybe the chariot could spawn shadow copies of itself when rescuing more than one unit? Like, additional chariots that use a caterpillar script to follow it around that cannot be targeted and simply take up map space so there's somewhere for that unit to go if the chariot dies?
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Maybe invisible copy then (with no sprite linked) to be used as markers could be a good trick on GBA hacks. For now I am just thinking about consepts, what can be done in some other engines, but in theory, the consept for the hacks is to "store" the characters like we store items in the inventory, or to do shadow copy like you said.
Conserning the "all must die", since they are ennemy-only units, that's the way. Imagine if you have an army of 10 war wagon, transoporting 4 units each, and 6 paladins to escort them trough some canyon corridors. The mission would be to kill them before they reach the meeting point valley at the other side, and if they do they release the units, what make the chapter a lot more difficult (46 enemy who can attack instead of 6) because they go back in a reversed-attack fashion since now You are blocked in the corridors.
Make ennemy reinforcment appear where they originaly came from to surround you, the battle objective change to "survive X turns", and you have a chapter with two ends (win or captured) what can led to a "chapter 20x: Escape" for exemple and show that their strategist is skilled and knew what you would do to try to stop them. Or you just can slow some wagons after killing the paladins and kill the waves of 4 soliders to lvl, but that's not the point xD
As for the release on death, I was thinking of adjacent squares, most of case would be 3+self since one is probably occuped by a unit who kill him, with the restriction of if a square is occuped, the unit can't respawn on it. It's like in reality, if there is only one attacking, the transported soliders can jump off and defend it (even before the wagon is killed), but if your chariot is complettly surrounded, there is most chances that all soliders in it will be killed and nobody can jump off.
If the unit appear to be in the ally side, they mostly will be green units to defend, and one transport an important character what make your mission to defend him (the others being decoy transporting soliders who are released if in contact with the ennemy). There is plenty of senario and game options, like even to hire generic units and war wagons too, for a story where you are not a wandering hero but a general who is in charge to compose the army.
So, the units who will be killed by a wagon lose are mostly generic units, exept if you choose to make an important character go in it, but you still can release the units before the ennemy attack, if you see them coming in your turn of play or retreat from some cases and release the units in the four adjacent squares at once to defend the wagon.
Of course, the "spawn to self square" mean that there will always be a survivor, the first on the list, so you must be carefull of the counterattack, if you plan to level with slow HP units and kill the chariot with a "lucky critical". I am in consept areas, and RPGmaker event makings, not GBA hacking, but I am shure that skilled coders can do such units. After all, there are guys who made a full FE editor engine, and not only one, so why not working on new consepts too ?
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I think the horse of the first tier should just be a completely armor/dress-less horse since it just a simple unit. Any tier after that you can add more armor on to the horse. Having one horse for the 1st team is quite fine.
2nd tier looks alright. Not much complaints there. Though, you could save the plumes on the horses for the 3rd tier.
Personally, the 3rd upgrade looks kinda weird and impractical with such a long chariot. It looks more like a wagon lol. I think instead of elongating the chariot, how about putting some armor that covers the chariot or heck change up the chariot completely into a different shape to reflect its more advanced tier.
I feel that the soldier on the chariots should have more varying armor. For example, 1st tier could be helmet less and have lighter looking armor. Then in 2nd tier he gets a helmet and slightly heaver armor. For 3rd, you could have the helmet cover his entire head, ala Heavy knights, in addition to heavier looking armor.
I guess my main complaints are basically just don't feel tied down by my original design and just go wild with the concept of the unit. Don't be afraid to change a lot in the sprites since just simply changing a bit just makes the sprite looks less original and more of a recolor 
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The idea for the 1st tier is interesting, I was focusing on having the hosre being reconizable of being for this class, but making it look a generic cavalier horse is not bad you're correct. Not completly armorless, because armies always put a sign on their units, but more generic why not ?
For the second, it was normal to add the plumes from what looked the 1st tier, but if we apply the new skin they definevly can be saved for 3rd tier you're correct again.
Conserning the 3rd tier and the overall "recolor" feeling, Charioteers are just unit transporters who can "save" up to 1-3 foot units, so they migh be considered as base soliders like the "solider" class. I focused on colors because of some sort of realism, what change is the decorative part and materials of shield because they're no fighters. Just like the Banner keper they are like representative of the army, but with a usefull role.
I know this can seems not enough, but there is no need to be on "epic" side spritewise on this unit. My style was focusing on realism (how can be 3 units plus the charioteer on a so small chariot on the last tier ? ^^") but you're correct about making lower the 1st and 2nd tier to show more diference with the elite version.
Thanks for the critique, I'll try to polish the sprites by adding some of your suggestions.
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I see, understandable. Though if the charioteer is more of a support unit that transport troop, why not rename it War Wagon since charioteers are known for being the "tanks" of the ancient times rather than APCs
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Well, the unit is currently named like this simply for the credits, since it is a mod of your charioteer. But you're right about how their roles are diferent. So, Maybe I'll animate your version with Pie1055's tips, since we now have two distainct classes with their own roles and styles. It can also be interesting since it makes the map sprites look close, so you have to plan carefully your strategy if you want not attack a charging unit instead of a convoy of reinforcment.
Seems that a lot can still be made with both the consepts and sprite polishing.
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