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StarryOak — SINCE WHEN WERE YOU THE ONE IN CONTROL?
Published: 2016-06-30 04:58:55 +0000 UTC; Views: 2372; Favourites: 48; Downloads: 10
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Description
Chara Masterpost: starryoak.deviantart.com/art/T…The design for Ghost!Chara is based off, obviously, Chara's revelation in the penultimate scene of the Genocide run if you choose to disobey Chara's wishes., but also off of this theory . I didn't have, well, the stomach to look up mummy skin colors (do not search for recently mummified bodies if you value your sanity....). Their clothes are much more frayed than their living form, and their clothes have the color of their skin, though their current skin tone as a ghost is paler than it was in life. The painted on blush to give the illusion of life only hurts the impression of humanity. There's something of a dichotomy I tried to give their look, simultaneously human and yet inhuman. The leaking black eyes... well, um, read the mummified explanation. It leaks down their face and helps their 'scary face'.
Chara's soul was released when they died. And bound back to their body, they experienced the mummification and wrapping, in the cold coffin they were placed in before their mother, Toriel, took them.... and buried them deep in the ruins, planting a flowerbed over their burial place. There they lay for hundreds of years, holding their hatred in as their body decayed, refusing to let go. Asriel's betrayal had convinced them that they couldn't trust anything in this world. Nothing was worth living, neither monsters nor humans. Monsters couldn't be trusted. They let you down... And so their hatred continued to fester, until one day... another human fell onto their bed.
Chara in this form is able to see everything... in the cavern of their coffin. They are much more... demented than they were when they were alive, spending over 600 years in one room will do that to you. This form is where they spent most of their life, and when they formed their decision to kill all monsters and humans, to erase the world. The famed line, the titular one, is not said to the player. In my headcanon universe ('Overtale' when it reaches the pacifist run ending is the name) Chara is the player, or at least, is the one controlling Frisk during the Genocide Route. They say this more to no one, when they erase the world, turning to nothing and, in defiance to the long forgotten God that their village claimed condemned them from birth, ask if He is really the one in control. He rejected them, and now His world is dead. Who is He to condemn them now? They're in control. And if He exists, He is powerless to stop them.
As a ghost, Chara can only possess those who accept them into their body, so they were only able to possess Frisk when Frisk accepted their offer of 'guidance' to the surface.
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Comments: 32
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*looks up mummified bodies on Google*
STARRY, I HAVE SEEN THINGS THAT CANNOT BE UNSEEN.
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since i can't read the desc (it's to long) do you think chara is evil?
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Well, they absolutely take horrifically murderpjs actions, and I define evil by actions or words, so, yes.
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murderous
Yes, they want to literally erase the entire world. That is an evil act. So yes, generally one with goals like that would qualify as evil.
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Excuse me, but the people who did the geno run are the ones who made them think erasing the world was right so...
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I think of things from an in universe perspective.
Chara wanted to slaughter their village, and hated humanity, according to Asriel. They take control of Frisk and cut a warpath through the Underground. By the end, Chara is the one in control, you physically lose control of your action at many points in the game due to Chara's actions rather than your own, which doesn't occur in the pacifist run, trigger red dialogue of Chara's thoughts, have text indicative of Chara's thoughts that differ from the standard game, most of which get morbid.
Since my in universe interpretation does not have a player, because the player is not part of the universe and doesn't have a place in the lore, the idea of the player taking control of Frisk as Frisk does not exist. The player who takes control in the Genocide run is Chara, because there is no other person that controls Frisk. Either Frisk controls their actions, or Chara asks if they can guide Frisk through the Underground, slowly taking control of them instead of guiding them.
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if your universe didn't have a player, then frisk would be the murderer, not chara. Chara would be tagging along through DETERMINATION and slowly turn corrupted. i mean, i don't like your universe in the first place because you're defying everything about chara and just turning to them being evil. even without a 'player' they still wouldn't be evil. Also Chara wanted to slaughter the village to save the monsters, rememberrrr??
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They said that they had always hated humanity. I know that the souls thing is a thing, but it can't be denied that Asriel no longer wanted to do it, and Chara tried to force him to use their body as a weapon. Not only that, the entire village was going to be killed if Chara had had their way. Murderous intent is.. obviously, bad.
Frisk's natural run and instinct in my headcanon would be Pacifist. They would, without any influence, and in the best circumstances, actively seek out the Pacifist route. That is the personality that I believe they have.
In my universe. since that is the route that Frisk would take on their own, without influence, the influence has to come from somewhere.
Now, an invisible outside person who controls the universe but only one person in that universe doesn't fit in my universe's lore. My universe assumes there is no such thing as the player, because the player is outside the narrative. I actively chose to leave out the player because my interpretation of the universe is as if it wasn't a game, but just a story/world. And if the player was in this world, they'd be a walking Deus ex Machina . Bad writing.
It erases the motivations of two main characters without adequate explanation, since 'it's not Frisk/Chara, it's the player' means that Chara and Frisk no longer have agency in their own world, they don't make their own choices and aren't even characters anymore, since an important part of character is... well, everything.
The Save Points and resetting existed prior to Chara/Frisk, Flowey proves that, ergo, it wouldn't make sense that only Chara/Frisk are controlled by the player.
The player cannot be affected by anything in the story, making them above all motivation and all consequences, which is important to a character that would objectively be that powerful. Then, it wouldn't make sense that they suddenly stop. They would be a character that shows up, controls the story with no explanation or motivation, or repercussions, or any input, and then just left
That just doesn't fit in a narrative assuming that the story isn't a game, which, for the purposes
There has to be something that changes Frisk from that path, seeing as we only know Frisk is even Frisk in the Pacifist ending, no other. And if, as in my headcanon, that is how they would want it to be, someone has to have that desire. Desire to murder literally everyone doesn't just come out of nowhere, and the player does not exist.
And if it's not the player, then what of the character that actively wrests control from the player, is described as someone who hated humanity and wanted to slaughter their entire village, actively overrides Frisks thoughts (AKA the in game descriptions) and inserts their own, takes actions without Frisks input, and is the one to choose to ERASE the world?
It's how I read the story that I played and the research I did into the Genocide run, since I can't emotionally bring myself to play it, as early as Snowdin, Chara actively takes away control and labels characters on their own. They don't just tag along, they take away the controls.
I think I might not have been clear enough when I said 'Well, they absolutely take horrifically murderous actions, and I define evil by actions or words, so, yes.'
Chara is not inherently evil, but they have chosen to do evil things. I consider murder of those who have no ill intent or are not attacking you to be an evil action, barring certain exceptions. They aren't some pure evil creature, but a person who chose to do bad things.
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We don’t know much, as both Frisk and Chara’s pasts are left mostly ambiguous, but there are clues in the game we can piece together to tell their stories. Chara climbed Mt. Ebott. They tripped, and fell down, into the land of monsters. Some may see this incident as an accident, but later on, Asriel asks Frisk why they climbed the mountain. He alludes to some sadly suicidal urges on Frisk’s side, and then goes on immediately to say that Chara climbed Mt. Ebott for “not a very happy reason.” Furthermore, when you check the faded ribbon in the ruins, the narration (Chara) reads, “If you’re cuter, monsters won’t hit you as hard!” That…pretty much speaks for itself, but if you need a little more of a nudge, it’s a pretty heavy indicator that Chara was abused on the surface by humans. This is further evidenced by the fact that Toriel has dulled down all the tools in her home and hidden all the knives, and we know that Chara meant no ill harm to the Dreemurr family (more on that later), so it’s implied that Chara actually planned on using these tools on themself.
From all of this we can gather that Chara was not in the best place in their life when they fell. They obviously climbed the mountain to commit suicide, and most likely from abuse from humans. This explains their distaste for the human race. But when they fell down, they were taken in, by the loving Dreemurrs, who gave them a home and treated them with love and kindness.
A lot of people may think that Chara was simply playing along and pretending to care about the Dreemurrs, but that’s far from the truth! When you check around New Home in the No Mercy run, Chara will find snippets from their past that Asgore kept around the house - a pink, hand-knit sweater reading “Mr. Dad Guy,” macaroni art of a flower, described as, “For King Dad!” a drawing of a golden flower by Chara’s bed…All of these were made by Chara, for their family. If they were made by Asriel, they would’ve just said “Dad”. Chara even has a portrait of the whole family smiling tilted towards their pillow! Chara poured their love for their family into these gifts. They were abused by humans, and the only people who had ever shown them kindness were the Dreemurrs - why wouldn’t they love them back? No one ever said Chara hated monsters.
This leads into their plan, the one to gather 6 human souls. Many interpret this plan as some carefully crafted scheme to kill all humans, but it’s really quite the opposite. The plan starts when Chara and Asriel decide to make a butterscotch pie for Asgore. They confuse cups of butter for buttercups, and use those in the recipe instead. (And before you say this was intentional on Chara’s half, we’re talking about a possibly 10 year old here, who likes Star Wars and dogs and stupid puns. They didn’t even know the flowers were poisonous until after the incident, otherwise they could’ve gone through with the plan far before!)
The pie poisons Asgore, and he gets very sick. Asriel comments on this later by saying that he should’ve ‘laughed it off’ like Chara did. Oh, so this means Chara enjoyed Asgore’s pain, right? Wrong! There is a ludicrous amount of evidence in the game that points to laughing being used by numerous characters as a coping mechanism for pain. For instance, Toriel laughs when you kill her, Sans tells jokes despite being deprsesed, the villagers in Snowdin laugh away their sorrows, Snowdrake’s father describes his sad life, laughs, and then says “that’s not funny.” Laughing at Snowdrake’s mother’s amalgamate prompts the narration from Chara: “You laugh, and keep laughing. It’s SO funny, you can’t stop. Tears run down your face. …what? You didn’t do that?” If you laugh again, Chara says, “But it’s not funny.” Heckling her yields the narration, “You look horrible. Why are you even alive? …what? You didn’t say that?” Checking the Royal Guards in the No Mercy run directly references a Japanese novel about adoptive family and suicide. The passage reads, “I see two lovers staring over the edge of the cauldron of hell. Do they both wish for death? That means their love will end in hell. I couldn’t stop laughing.” Asriel also laughs when he is about to die. Mettaton explicitly says, “My poor love! I’m so filled with grief, I can’t stop laughing!” after laughing about Frisk almost dying.
I think that’s about enough evidence to confidently say that Chara didn’t enjoy Asgore’s pain when he was accidentally poisoned. Chara really was just laughing off the pain, trying to make light of a traumatic situation. This is a symptom highly found in mentally ill people.
Moving on with their plan, once Chara realized that buttercups were poisonous, they had an idea. Monsters knew that a human soul combined with a monster soul would be powerful enough to cross the barrier, but not to break it. Now, if Chara only wanted to cross the barrier to kill humans, they could’ve easily just killed one of the Dreemurrs and taken their soul, right? But they didn’t. Instead, they discussed the plan with Asriel and proceeded to poison themself with buttercups - an excruciatingly painful way to die, 'symptoms include bloody diarrhea, excessive salivation, colic, and severe blistering of the mouth, mucous membranes and gastrointestinal tract.’ They willingly put themself through this in order to spare their family, and by extension, free all monsters from the underground.
The plan was that when Chara died from poisoning, Asriel would absorb their soul, cross the barrier, gather 6 human souls and return to break it, freeing monsters. At first glance, when listening to the tapes in the True Lab, it may sound like Chara is manipulating Asriel into the plan. But upon closer examination, Asriel is…totally fine with it. He agrees to the plan, knowing fully well that he would have to kill 6 humans in order for it to succeed. He’s of course a little concerned, but he agrees, realizing they’d be able to free all monsters together. The only time he truly hesitated was when he realized how much pain Chara was in. He cared about them, they were as close as siblings, and seeing them suffering on their death bed, being the only person to know that it was all intentional and not just some sickness…it was a lot for Asriel to deal with. But he kept going with it, from his own will, and continued with the plan.
Narration throughout the game indicates that no one, human nor monster, could have predicted what would happen when a monster absorbed a human soul. It had never happened before, and no one knew what to expect. So when Asriel absorbed Chara’s soul, they didn’t know that power would be split between them. So Chara picked up their dead body, and carried it to the surface. When humans saw this, they assumed the monster had killed the human, and immediately attacked. Chara had known they would attack, and wanted to show Asriel the true nature of humans - that they really are cruel, and attack things they don’t understand. Asriel was dying, he was severely wounded and the only way for him to survive would be to fight back. Only then did Chara urge him to kill more humans - it was the only way for him to survive, Chara didn’t want their best friend to die for nothing, so they tried to use their power to fight back against the humans. They were trying to protect him, and they were filled with bad feelings towards humans after being abused by them. But Asriel refused, picked up Chara’s body and turned back. He passed away, and became Flowey, while Chara remained dead but semi conscious in their body. Toriel took them back and buried them at the entrance to the mountain, where golden flowers bloomed from the seeds still stuck to Chara’s dead body. (From Chara Defense Club, yes, I know, Chara was not a perfect child but you keep on overcoating certain things they did and TRYING to make them seem horrid and something without reason, which is really ticking me off)
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Is it wrong for me to say that, while I can see this makes sense, it doesn't fit how I interpreted the story, which is objectively different than other people's. For me, just for example on one point, the tapes were meant to be interpreted as indicative of Chara's unsettling behavior, and I don't think they knew it was poisonous, but that they had laughed. In a manner not like the other situations in the game. Toriel laughs with resignation, and at her previous thought that they wouldn't be able to make it. Sans jokes because he doesn't want others to know. The Nacarat Jester and Mouse have their own philosophy, I see Snowy's battle as narrated from her perspective, Mettaton is acting in an overdramatic and intentionally sarcastic manner. These each have context that informs their laughter for different reasons, and the context in the lab is of unsettling behavior
Actually, the more important question, one that's actually worrying me, is... Is it wrong that my sympathy stops, even when a person is abused and hurt and even suicidal, when they begin to do things that are wrong? When they, as I stated, are the only logical controller in my universe without a a player, it is their decision to deviate from the Pacifist route. They picked up the knife and killed Toriel, and continued to do the same to the rest of the Underground... Their sympathetic backstory loses its hold on me, because they are doing horrible things. Their backstory informs why, but it does not absolve them of guilt for their actions. I mean, I can't just go 'oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were abused, your actions are completely justified now', because of the severity of the things they did. I can have empathy for their situation, but I cannot have empathy for their actions.
They do not do things without reason. They are hurt, and scared, and filled with a justified hate. That said, I... can't say that justifies their behavior. As I said, I define evil by actions. And the actions taken are horrible. They have motivation, they aren't a reasonless being of pure hate or anything, they are hurt and taking it out on others. But that doesn't make what they did any less wrong.
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well you don't need to act like there evil, when there just a child who made mistakes. also they seriously didn't kill anyone, except for themselves
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Evil. Defined. By. Actions. Actions such as murder are evil. Taken by a child or not, a child has the capability, unless they are about 6 or so, to understand that murder is wrong.
As I have stated multiple times, this universe lacks any other logical motivator for the events of the Genocide Route without Chara, I've actually thought about it, believe it or not, the story I have worked out, and Chara in game advances on many monsters without giving control up to the player, with intent to kill (Monster Kid; Looks like free EXP). Ergo, the actions are murder, ergo, evil. Not incurably evil, not unjustified in actions, but taking evil actions.
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the problem with this is that. You are excluding the player, the player has a big role in undertale and if you take the player away your just doing basically anything you want and making up things. I'm fine with head canons, just as long as you don't take out things that are CANON from the game. And you are doing that so...also there's tons of things to back up the genocide run. Char awakes up, sees a human killing anything it sees. Chara can't do anything, there stuck with frisk through Determintion. Chara is not happy about the killing either, they go silent with the Toriel and asgore fights, express the sadness in undyne, the heroines, fight. Soon Chara has seen so much killing they start becoming corrupted, start thinking killing and harm is the way, because of you. Children are easily influenced you know. When your about to kill flowey, he doesn't die right away. It's because it's a moment where you have control back, in that moment YOU have to strike. Chara didn't do it, because there giving you one last chance, to back out and reset. This is literally the last chance you have to fix everything, and Chara is giving that to you in hopes they won't have to kill. There. Own. Brother. But then, you make him die anyways, and Chara is full of hate and can feel nothing else now. When you find Chara in the black abyss, they talk about how YOU helped the, with this, helped them understand there purpose of recarnation. Power. When Chara asks to erase the world, most people say no. Chara is flung into a state of confusion and betrayl, they thought you wanted the world to be destroyed, I mean you just slaughtered basically a whole entire race. Then Chara does the since when you were the one in control thing and destroy the world. Pretty messed up, but you did just do the same thing and taught them that it was right then call the, evil. Chara states multplie times that you killed everything and pushed it al to its limits after they destroy the world and you wait around. I mean seriously, your trying to force Chara to be a bad person because your taking out the player which really ticks me of. There not evil, and I don't care what you say about them wanting to murder six humans to save a whole entire race or anything, they aren't perfect, they aren't a angel, but that doesn't mean there evil, horrid, or bad. They made mistakes and that's it. It annoys me that you just can't seem to get that through your head.
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I am taking out the player because the player is literally not part of the universe. They are an outside the universe force that has a place in the narrative only if the narrative is of a video game, which is what is canon.
But my headcanon is a world without the player because they are not a part of the story that has anything that can be told with them because as I said, it erases all of the motivations for Frisk and Chara and has no way of having repercussions for their actions, and not only that, can't be properly defined because there is literally no single player and therefore no way to establish a character for the player, basically making them not a character but a force of nature with no goals but they have goals, just ones that cannot be explained and powers that are ill defined and have little to no in universe explanation because they are not part of the universe. They do not follow the rules of the universe, which means that it just... doesn't make sense for a world where this is not a game.
I erased the player because the player is outside the events of the universe and including them would be a complete deus ex machina because i cannot define the actions of every single undertale player into one character, nor can i adequately explain it without saying it's a video game, which, in universe, it is not.
And 'your just doing basically anything you want and making up things.'
that is kind of the point of headcanons, fanfiction, and fanart. Doing what you want with the characters. Whether other people like it or not. You are, very unfortunately, included in that. However, you can find another person who shares your opinions, or make your own story. The rest of the fandom doesn't have to see it the way you see it.
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*Sigh* the rest of the fandom, doesn't have to see it like me but i'm stating logical facts here and your throwing them away basically. I have no clue why you're so determined to state Chara can't/isn't good. Sure, you forgive everyone else for there wrong doings and evil actions yet when Chara does a mistake every just hates them
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I'm stating facts as well.
The universe I write and odraw about has no player. I have logically stated why this is the case.
Frisk naturally would, without interference, complete a Pacifist Run, and would always die rather than fight, every time.
It doesn't make sense for Frisk to radically alter their worldview and set out to erase the world.
What could change that? There has to be an outside force, but it cannot be literally outside the constraints of the story, so there has to be something that did it.
The list of characters who have the power to do such a thing boil down to one. And they already do have a presence in the Genocide Run, whose thoughts start appearing in red text? Who takes over control of the game to perform actions (so, in a world where it isn't a game, taking away Frisk's control) on their own, including advancing on MK to kill him? Who is the one with the desire to ERASE the world? Even if the player existed, a first run, no spoilers player would not know or have that as a goal. Chara suggests it.
I don't hate Chara. I think they're a pitiable child doing horrible things for their own misguided reasons. Those actions are objectively bad,things. The path life gave them lead them to do it, but that does not make them any less responsible for their actions.
Nobody is inherently evil. Everyone has a choice. But when you choose to do things,that are bad, when you could have done the right thing, that is bad. Not unforgivable, but when you consciously keep making decisions that you know are wrong, you are being a bad person.
I don't like the idea of some invisible force taking away free will from the world.
Thats it. I've explained it several times now. You weren't going to change how I think or how I tell my story. I just like talking about my stories. But this isn't fun anymore, or productive. I've just been running over the same points that you refuse to accept are true to the story that I'm telling, and that's not helping either of us.
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Is it bad that I'm scared of dung beetles, but I said "Oh, cool" in response to the mummies?
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ahh ok so i hope you're not offended but i have questions
If Chara dies in the 1300's, was it the 1900's when Frisk arrived?
And is the monster world more technologically advanced than the human world since they have computers and robots and stuff at that time, or is it like the 1990's?
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Ok, I made a fucking error in the 600 years thing please slap me
Frisk fell on the day Undertale was released.
math is my brain suit thing
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What do you like about it?
And thank you!
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Jeez, I don't think I can look at mummies the same way.
And I am Goddamn sorry you ever laid eyes on such a thing.
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i saw more than i ever wanted to see
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