Comments: 712
Bismuth84 [2021-12-18 03:11:16 +0000 UTC]
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
shark235 [2019-08-01 07:38:22 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
equigoyle In reply to shark235 [2020-04-21 04:38:12 +0000 UTC]
I just watched the scene you are referring to. Unfortunately, those weren't children. Just bad animation and bad angles showcasing adult Transformers. A few may have been minibots.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
shark235 In reply to equigoyle [2020-04-21 16:04:17 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
equigoyle In reply to shark235 [2020-04-21 18:03:52 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, that's the problem with G1. To my eyes though, especially after watching the series, I think it was an animation error. I won't say no to anyone headcannoning they're kids but realistically . . . I don't think that's what the animators were after.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
shark235 In reply to equigoyle [2020-04-21 18:10:27 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
equigoyle In reply to shark235 [2020-04-21 19:28:32 +0000 UTC]
Oh, BIG time. One of the biggest disappointments and hardest things to fix. Still has some good memories though.
At least the first two seasons. Will never watch the movie again or season 3. They SLAUGHTERED Optimus!
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
shark235 [2019-07-27 02:43:42 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
shark235 [2019-07-12 19:24:57 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
shark235 [2019-06-16 03:35:58 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
shark235 [2019-05-29 18:58:23 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Tramp-Graphics In reply to shark235 [2019-05-30 23:44:07 +0000 UTC]
No, they are not immortal, just very long-lived. And no, you can't have romance without reproduction. Romance is courtship behavior. courtship behavior evolved specifically in order for individuals to find mates with which to breed and produce offspring. And as for that guy's post, I say Hogwash.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Tramp-Graphics In reply to shark235 [2019-06-03 20:57:00 +0000 UTC]
Other than the fact that, on screen it's established that they live for millions of years, but still do physically age?
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
equigoyle [2019-05-26 01:23:37 +0000 UTC]
This is detailed . . . and it makes sense. I have read in other places, predominantly 'fanon' ideas the Transformers produce via a Spark Bond. What is your take on that? In some instances, a 'newspark' is carefully removed from the spark of the femme and placed in a 'protoform' or infant. Would that make biological sense?
I am not sure sometimes where canon is canon and 'fanon' is 'fanon'. I have read some pieces where the spark is nothing but a ball of energy. Yet in other sources, which I think comes from the live action films, a spark is encased in some form of silicone based crystalline substance. To 'merge sparks' which creates the fanon idea of a bond . . . would that be physically impossible, or possible? Your charts present the notion that a 'spark merge' could potentially be impossible. Of course I could be wrong.
Also, I am of the opinion that Cybertronians DO have gender. They are male and female. That Fuman guy, or whatever his name is, is a whack.
Even so, this idea challenges the notion of the All Spark. So my thought is . . . what if the Well of All Sparks in actually a burial ground of sorts? It is not, in fact, a place where mecha go to experience the birthing of a new being, but it is in fact a place where they take their dead.
Anyway, interesting.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Tramp-Graphics In reply to equigoyle [2019-05-27 20:44:08 +0000 UTC]
I disagree with the idea of “spark bonding” and the like. They’re not biologically sound. First of all, the spark core is not a reproductive organ. It’s essentially the heart of a The Spark is essentially the soul and blood. It’s not a means of reproduction. Reproduction needs to involve cellular replication, and canonically, Transformers are made up of cells. Their cells simply happen to be self-replicating nanomachines.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Tramp-Graphics In reply to equigoyle [2019-05-28 02:24:15 +0000 UTC]
A “spark bond” is a spiritual bond, not a physical one. And, as such, would not result in offspring. The only instance in TF canon of two sparks forming a new spark was the forced merger of Tigertron and Airazor to create Tigerhawk. The key difference here is that this wasn’t reproduction. It wasn’t two sparks creating new life while also remaining their own entities. It was two sparks becoming one single spark by being fused together.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
equigoyle In reply to Tramp-Graphics [2019-05-28 05:21:21 +0000 UTC]
Hmmm, point. So, how could one create that 'spiritual' spark bond and still have that telepathic link that is so prevalent? I've only ever seen it through the 'merging' of sparks as previously mentioned, and thus can find no other way for two newly mated bots to have that 'spiritual' link that is so prevalent in the TF fandom. Also, I have read in places that sparks are likened to miniature stars. In that sense, wouldn't one spark practically consume the other? Stars with greater mass typically bloat themselves by sucking up the mass of other stars. Wouldn't a 'merging' of sparks work the same way?
Speaking of 'merging,' I never saw Beast Machines or whatever it was, and frankly I may be one of the only fans who has absolutely no interest in it. I've heard it's a good series I just . . . well, the idea doesn't appeal to me. Not sure why. I guess because it was an entirely different story and the characters were so different. I preferred Optimus Prime and Ironhide . . . you know, all the familiar and iconic characters. I understand Beast Machines was another era, that they were 'descendants' but it still just . . . isn't my thing.
Also, I'm not sure I buy the idea of Tigertron and Airazor becoming a completely different being, a single being yes, but an entirely different being through the merging of two sparks. IF the spark is their soul, then that would mean that each individual soul or 'identity' is wiped out. I don't believe that is possible. A soul is infinite and cannot be changed. Science fiction and other sources often falsely state otherwise but . . . it's a cartoon. Even so, I think this instance created some confusion and excitement within the fandom. I wonder if this is where the idea of 'spark bonding' as a possible form of reproduction came from? Ignorance is bliss in most cases - and most certainly with a large number of TF fans and producers. I wonder if some fans think that Tigerhawk is the child of Tigertorn and Airazo? Could this be what started the fad?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Tramp-Graphics In reply to equigoyle [2019-05-31 00:11:03 +0000 UTC]
Well, first off, that "telepathic" link you describe is not something that occurs in canon. It's a fan made concept. So I wouldn't put too much stock into it. So a "Spark bond" isn't physical. It's essentially a marriage, it's ceremonial. We do have examples of Transformers getting married, or, more precisely, already established as being married. And the term "Spark Mates" is canonically a term used to describe such a relationship, particularly with the aforementioned Tigertron and Airazor.
Tigertron and Airazor's merging was not their doing. It was forcibly done to them by a group known as the [url= tfwiki.net/wiki/Vok]Vok[/url]. And it wasn't just their sparks that were fused, it was their bodies too. tfwiki.net/wiki/Tigerhawk Initially, the Vok abducted Airazor and Tigertron, extracted their Sparks, forcibly fused their bodies together, and two Vok inhabited the new Tigerhawk. The sparks of Airazor and Tigertron followed behind, and eventually were able to regain control over the new body by merging together, becoming a single entity. Tigerhawk was eventually killed by Megatron, but later, in the 3H comics, after the Beast Wars were over, the extant sparks of Tigertron and Airazor were granted new Transmetal bodies, once again becoming two distinct individuals. This occurred in Primeval Dawn parts I and II tfwiki.net/wiki/Airazor_(BW).
So the creation of Tigerhawm was the permanent fusion of two bodies and two sparks together into a single entity, not a reproductive process.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
equigoyle In reply to Tramp-Graphics [2019-05-31 03:51:05 +0000 UTC]
Okay, that makes sense. I was having trouble figuring out what was cannon and what was fannon. Sometimes even Wikipedia isn't very clear and its been the only real resource I've had. I was partially familiar with a 'spark bond' in the cannon sense but not so familiar with the fact it was strictly a ceremonial marriage process. I thought it was all linked together or something. I do recall reading that a bonding involves four stages of proving ones affection for the other with acts of service, or something like that, but I'm not sure any more if that was also cannon or just another example of fannon interpretation.
To be honest, I do like the idea of the 'telepathic' link between a bonded pair, even if it is a fandom born idea. I don't know, there's just something deeper about it. Even so, I know the spark is not a reproductive organ but in a hypothetical sense could the merging of sparks - not as we see with Airazor and Tigertron - create the telepathic link I spoke about, or would it be through an entirely different means altogether? Would merging sparks together be too dangerous to attempt?
In some cannon, the spark is nothing more than a ball of energy. We saw this in the episode you mentioned, Primeval Dawn (I've seen stills through Google Images and stuff) and in Transformers Animated, though I have not seen one single episode of that series. But in the live action film verse, the spark is depicted as something similar but contained within a crystal ball type structure. We saw this in Revenge of the Fallen when Optimus crushed the Fallen's spark - and I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a miniature supernova or anything like that - and then again in Age of Extinction when we see Optimus's spark during the scene where Cade is working to repair him. Frankly, I like the idea of a spark being safely contained in some crystalline element instead of being completely exposed as we saw in TFA when Sari restored Optimus. To me, that little ball of electricity could go out far more easily being so exposed than it would when encased in whatever substance is depicted in the live action films. But even in the comics, if memory serves, sparks are just little balls of energy. I think folks have called them 'miniature suns' in places. I could be getting my source material mixed up again, though.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Tramp-Graphics In reply to equigoyle [2019-05-31 19:51:31 +0000 UTC]
The Spark only takes the form of a sphere of energy if it has left the body for some reason. Otherwise it suffuses every cell within the Cybertronian. The spark core (which is what most think of as the Spark) pumps this energy throughout the body.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
equigoyle In reply to Tramp-Graphics [2019-05-31 20:42:58 +0000 UTC]
Hmm... not sure what to do then as far as that 'link' everyone loves so much. I myself thought it was a pretty cool idea.
I may also have to study the chart you made a little more as far as the spark is concerned. I've got it stuck in my head that it is sealed in a crystal - something, like in Revenge of the Fallen. I suppose that's not wrong. But coherency to cannon biology would be good too.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Tramp-Graphics In reply to equigoyle [2019-06-03 20:55:55 +0000 UTC]
Check out this article on Sparks: tfwiki.net/wiki/Spark
Here's one passage from it:
"The G1 More Than Meets The Eye guidebook from Dreamwave specifically states that a spark is normally "suffused" throughout a Transformer's body rather than residing in any particular place. It may be that this is also true after the Great Upgrade and the spark chamber is merely a protected location for the spark to coalesce when needed or be safely contained during stasis lock . Meanwhile, making things more confusing is the cutaway diagrams of G1 Optimus Prime and Megatron in Transformers: The Ultimate Guide including spark chambers."
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
equigoyle In reply to Tramp-Graphics [2019-06-03 22:30:43 +0000 UTC]
Wow. . . that had a LOT of info. And it is still confusing. Predominantly, it seems the spark is just some kind of ball of energy and yet in some cases it has a strong outer shell, like in the films. There are references to it being crushed . . . Man, all this cannon stuff is wacked and inconsistent. I'll just have to come up with something that takes a little bit of everything from canon and makes it more coherent...at least for me. It still doesn't quite explain a spark bond or how it could be possible . . . but maybe I could think something up. In one instance a spark is 'suffused' throughout a Transformers body and at other times a spark can 'free float', so maybe . . . I don't know. Will have to think about that one.
One question I have - and I do appreciate your patience and being willing to answer my questions - is regarding a 'breathing' apparatus. Its predominantly apparent that Transformers do not breath. They don't need to; they're not organic. And yet in Transformers Prime, specifically the episode "Sick Mind" we see Optimus lying on a med-berth 'breathing heavily' as if in pain or general discomfort. There's a few other instances where the other characters also exhibit this behavior. Cliffjumper even spits out energon as though it were seeping down his throat or something just before Starscream killed him in "Darkness Rising Part One." I looked over the diagram and did not see anything which could illustrate a possible respiratory system for Transformers.
How do you imagine they would breathe? Surely they need oxygen or something to be able to keep their systems running. Our vehicles today - though ridiculously outclassed by advanced beings like Transformers - still use filters and such to help keep engines cool. Of course its more involved than that. There are water pumps and the like, as well. Coolants. All of this would of course play a major role in keeping a Transformer's body from overheating, but would they also use a sort of fan, water pumps and a filter of sorts to use in place of lungs? I think it was in your description that you mentioned Transformers - and maybe it was on Wiki too - but somewhere it was mentioned that Transformers do consume other sources of nutrients other than just energon. There were references somewhere of Transformers consuming some kind of fruit, and I think this is predominantly from the Beast era. Thus, it stands to reason that Transformers would drink water and would have to have a source of water on Cybertron to help keep their systems cool. Is this a wrong assumption?
What are your thoughts on that? I may have to go back and re-read the description to be sure, but the fact a Transformer may or may not be able to breathe was unclear. IF they do, I don't think they would draw a breath as frequently as we do? Perhaps their breathing would become more agitated in such cases of battle, fear or anger and the like, but it may still be different from us. Every bit of their anatomy is a mild reflection of ourselves though clearly mechanical. You mentioned in your comments that they would excrete waste, which is something I have always wondered about. I have thought that they would not need to, that their bodies would utilize every bit of nutrients they consume, including lubricant. Here it seems they would STILL excrete waste. My curious questions is; why? They are living beings, surely, but still mechanoids, and it seems they consume chemical infused energy sources, most of which evaporate or something like that as it is used. Our fuels today do the same thing. What is different about the advanced systems of a Transformer that inspired the thought that they could excrete waste? What sort of waste would they excrete? Excess water, like we do at times? And if they do consume some form of semi-organic plants like in the Beast era, would it be solid waste or predominantly liquid waste? I would imagine liquid waste but I'm not certain anymore...
Transformers are more complex that we imagined, it seems, and a lot more like us than some fans and writers like to think. But I think it makes sense. They are living sentient beings fully capable reproducing, loving, learning and dying. It's .... cool.
Sorry to keep asking complicated questions, but this is interesting info and it does help.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Tramp-Graphics In reply to equigoyle [2019-06-05 23:14:23 +0000 UTC]
Transformers do breathe, but not for the same reasons we do. They do take in air for the purpose of cooling.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
shark235 In reply to equigoyle [2019-05-27 20:30:54 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
shark235 In reply to equigoyle [2020-04-20 23:36:13 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
equigoyle In reply to shark235 [2020-04-21 03:20:13 +0000 UTC]
You are not the only one in that minority. I too think they should have gender and reproduce and raise their own offspring. It would be so interesting and so cute to see them grow up and for the human characters to be able to relate to them in some way. Imagine someone like Spike being told Optimus grew up a certain way, that he had a mother and a father.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
shark235 In reply to equigoyle [2020-04-21 16:04:59 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
equigoyle In reply to shark235 [2020-04-21 18:04:06 +0000 UTC]
Totally cute!!!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
shark235 In reply to equigoyle [2020-04-22 16:46:01 +0000 UTC]
Hidden by Commenter
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
| Next =>