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venusdemon108 — The Boy I used to love
Published: 2003-10-16 02:00:49 +0000 UTC; Views: 165; Favourites: 1; Downloads: 57
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Description
I see him therewith a smile on his face
the memories remain
but the feelings are erased
because the boy that sits there,
he's the boy i used to love...
Another has arrived
the feelings are reborn
the scars all have healed
my heart's no longer torn
and at least i am still friends
with this guy i used to love
this other who i love
has healed my broken heart
he brings me gifts of laughter
he helps relieve my strife
There is another now,
he's come to take the space left by
the man i used to love...
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Comments: 37
Damn...ultimately your art/poetry should only be what you, the creator, makes it out to be and no one else's. And if it's good to you, that's all that really matters... I agree that critism is good, but it shouldn't be ratted on.
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Damn...ultimately your art/poetry should only be what you, the creator, makes it out to be and no one else's. And if it's good to you, that's all that really matters... I agree that critism is good, but it shouldn't be ratted on.
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Just wanted to say, I've read this over several times and then only got some of the subminal imagry with the transition from boy to man...sometimes it still i dont know doesnt hurt, but there is a fimilar ache where something is missing inside of me i guess that sharing, not that i regret it, not at all what was done was done and couldnt have happened any other way, its just i guess I still grieve the abscene of the one who is to come.
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I think mrmcpheezy needs to take a chill pill. I thought the poem was cool.
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I think , whats his face up there, is way to thinking to hard, for fucking sake you cant judge art. so some advice for idoit up there, shut up, go away, and be anal to yourslef
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Some advice to you. I am positive that I can judge grammar. So go away, shut the hell up, learn to speak the English language properly, and then start talking again...maybe.
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Some advice to you. Find your heart, because only then can you look at someone and find theirs. And until then I will feel sorry for you, and one day though, i know your soul will find its path.
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What in god's unholy name are you talking about?
There's no need for you to feel sorry for me. I don't even understand what reason you think you have for feeling sorry for me. I stated that a poem someobe wrote was bad. You took that as reason to feel sorry for me. Because I don't like every poem I read? What kind of sense does that make? None. Absolutely none.
My soul will find it's path? I'm not even going to comment on that. Read my poem 'Sadhana'.
It seems to be that you realize you've lost with regard to the actual disagreement, so now you're just trying to come across as though you're a better or more complete and aware of a person than I am. Shut the hell up.
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And, my friend I in no beilive that i have "lost". Because I can not lose, when there is no game.
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Disagreements often end with winners and losers, much like games.
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This may be true, but there are no losers there are no winners. NOthing is black or white, because no matter how it ends niether party will be swayed or think differently, am I correct in this?
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No. I believe that sometimes people truly are either right or wrong. People who are wrong can be persuaded.
If you were telling me that 2+2=5, you would be wrong. I would convince to stop thinking that. You would be swayed.
This argument is much like that. You're trying to tell me that all poetry is good, as long as someone likes it. No. That's just wrong. Saying that something is "good" implies that it is being executed on a high level. You liking something does not make it high quality.
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No, you have me mistaken. I niether said that all poetry is good, as I said all poetry is bad. Let me say it this way. I beilive that all poetry is good, and all poetry is bad. It depends on the person to make their own decision. And 2+2=5, but this is Math, which is very different from poetry, because you can write a "equationed" perfect poem, and ppl may still not like it. There for showing that poems and art are both good and bad, and are neither. It all depends on the reader. You say it is bad, and I firmly beilve you are telling the truth. And you may be right, but only to you.
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Thank you. I agree with you on that.
One more thing...not everyone writes like Whitman because there are a number of different styles that are good. However all of them use certain poetic devices, and I believe that only rarely can a poem be good when it is void of all of those.
Oh yeah. And fuck the Beatles.
Have a nice day as well. Thank you for thinking. Not many people do.
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lol, so much for a beatles fan. hehehe, yes and thankyou for the same.
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Hoo-ha.
I've never liked the Beatles much. They deserve resepct for their innovation, but that's about it.
Hoo-ha.
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All from your perseptive lol.
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No. You're misusing the word good. With regard to the critiquing of art, " good" is not an opinion. "I like it" is an opinion. If you say something is good or bad, that means there are reasons beyong your personal tastes of liking or disliking it. I disliked this poem. But in addition to that, it was bad poems with regard to prosidy. And yes, you could wirte an "equationed" poem that people disliked, but it would still be good poetry. People's opinions are irrelevant when it comes to the quality of an art. Someone liking something does not make it good. What makes art good is proper use of artistic techniques, knowledge of the art itself. That's what make poetry good, not an opinion.
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But if all poetry falls under good, noted, then why dont poeple write more like Walt? As for this conversation, I am quite tired. I have enjoyed discussing this issue with you, because it is that of many different view points. I have enjoyed reading your views as I have enjoyed expressing mine. But like I said I am tired, and I think both of us have expressed our points, and in the immortal words of The Beatles lets "let it be" for we could talk about it all day, and it will still be there. So have a nice day, I have enjoyed in discussing with another thinker.
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Once agian, there is no right way. As a fellow thinker cant you see that.
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A few points of advice.
Show, don't tell. You do nothing but telling in this "poem". It's starving from lack of imagery. Make me see something, please. There aren't even any adjectives. That's not good.
You say everything about the story in the poem. Closure can be a good thing, but too much of it is a probelm. There's nothing left for the reader to consider. Everything is explained. It would be better, maybe, if you left it open as to whether not the speaker found someone new. Mention that they're interested in someone new, but leave it open to the possibility that the speaker never finds someone to replace...
the boy they used to love. Which segues nicely into my next point. Change the title. You can add a whole new dimension to the title by making the title something not contained in the poem itself.
Yeah. That's all I've got.
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ok, for one, not all poems have to have imagery, this one is
TELLING how I feel. it's personal poem, i write from personal experience most of the time and this is one of my more personal poems. so don't go telling me how to make the poem better when to me, it DESCRIBES my emotions perfectly. don't go all english teacher on me and start breaking apart my work please, it takes enough for me to post it on this site instead of throwing it away and forgetting the emotions that I feel. and closure is what i feel. i'm not writing a romance novel or a suspence novel, i'm writing a poem about how i feel. feelings make poems, not imagery, or suspence, but the complexity of human emotion is what makes a poem great, no matter how good it is english wise.
yeah. that's all i've got.
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Well. Unfortunately you're wrong. You liking it does not make it good. Poetry is driven by art as well as emotion. Poems are supposed to show and not tell. Take a poetry class before you try to tell me that this is some sort of ars poetica.
Don't you dare try to make me feel bad for commenting on this. You posted it here. Don't do that if you can't deal with me not liking it. It doesn't make sense to post a poem on a site like this and then get mad when people critique it.
I'm glad that you're using poetry as an outlet for emotions. That's a good thing. But while you're at it, why not try to write good poetry? You can use form to enhance the emotion you feel and let out. Form opens you're poetry to new levels.
Think about it.
"Form is never more than a extension of content." - Creely
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You are an idoit because you can not judge the value of art. You can only judge it for yourself, not for others. Poems, and art in general are different for different for different ppl. Therfor you can only say it is bad for you. And have no right in making a generalization that applies to others. And btw some things you cant learn in books. 
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You are an idiot, because you can judge the value of art. It pisses me off that so many people think art is only about personal emotion. It's not. Just like everything else in life, there is an emotional side to it, but also a logical side. You cannot just put arbitrary words on paper and say that it is good poetry because you like it. That's my whole point. One person liking something does not make it good. You can say that you like whatever you want to like, but you can't necessarily say that it's good. Saying that a piece of art is good implies that it follows certain admonitions of the particular form of art. Your poem was not good. I'm sure you like it, and that's fine, but for the reasons I mentioned it is not good. That is an important distinction to make. I beg you to take a class on the subject of poetry before you go around declaring that any poems are good. It takes a certain level of understanding of the different aspects of an art to do it well. So please. Relax. You're wrong. Deal with it.
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Once you focus on the words and lose the meaning, the words mean nothing.
Fishing baskets are for catching fish. But when the fish are caught, you forget the baskets. Snares are for catching hares, but when the hares are trapped, you forget the snares. Words are for conveying ideas, but when the ideas are understood, you forget the words. How I'd love to talk with someone who's forgotten all the words!
- Chuang Tzu
The bottom line is that there is no 'right' way. Sure you may say I am wrong. I may say you are wrong, but I am not. There are just many ways of looking at it. To say art is good or bad is trivial. It is art. One judges it for oneself, not for others. It simply is, and can niether be bad or good, just different, speaking to different people who decide wether one beilves it is good or bad for that indivdual. So I apologize taht you feel that saying I am wrong makes you more right. For there is no right or wrong way. There are just different ways, neither holding greater marit than the other.
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Alright. Allow me to relate this to something else.
Food at Taco Bell. It's food, right? Yes. But it is comparable to the food they cook on Iron Chef? No. Not even close.
Taco Bell does technically make food, but the fact is that food can be made on such a higher level. Throwing beans, chees, and rice into a tortilla does not make you a chef.
This poem that started this whole thing was obviously a poem by the most basic standards, but the fact remains that poetry can be written on a much higher level.
When you take a poetry writing class, they don't just tell you, write something and if you like it, then it's good. No. They don't tell you that. They teach you a variety of techniques and general concepts of prosidy. Proper use of those things make poetry good. Poetry takes knoweldge and skill, which you probably lack.
Let's relate it to something else. Music.
If you pick a guitar and strum it, are you a musician? No. You're not. Music also takes knowledge and skill. If you write words on paper, are you a poet? No. You're not. That's my whole fucking point.
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The first time you picked up a pen or paper did that start you on the path, where you find yourself now? Do not rebuke others for traveling with you. Because we all came from the same place. And I reserve the right to show, that many people may like taco bell better than Iron Chef. And niether food, music or poetry should say they are better than one or another. Its all just a different way. Instead of saying art must be this to be art, lets let go of the tunnel vision this creates. Instead let art be what it is. And I think it is easier if you do not label oursleves. For I am not a poet, and niether are you. At times we create poetry. We are many things, mixed into one being. To say we are this we are that, is a crime to the rest of us. And this way if we let go of the need for a certian way, we will be all the happier for art is just that art. If nobody was around to judge it, would art still be good or bad?
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I'm not saying that I expect this person to be good at writing poetry. God knows I'm still not. But I've gotten better. And how have I gotten better? By having other people tell me what I need to do in order to improve. That's exactly what I did here. I guess advice form which the author could have benefitted.
And yes, plenty of people do prefer the stuff at taco bell over the things on iron chef. I'm one of those people. But even with that, I realize that chefs are better cooks than the people at taco bell; what they do is more challenging. That's what art is about, challenging yourself. Saying that all poetry is good and that it is nothing more than personal opinion is just an easy way out. If that is the case, then there is never need to improve, and then no need to challenge one's self.
Don't label ourselves? Shut up.
There is always somebody around to judge art.
Art is just art? You apparently appreciate/understand it much less than I do.
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You can try to belittle me with personal attacks all you want, but aside from those, the need for improvement should not come from others but from ourselves. And you are correct when you say you have benefited from people criticing your work, so have I. But, with art there is no formula, only tools, and which one the author chooses his their own choice. One is niether worse for doing things in a different way, with poetry at least to me, we arent all trying to be the best. I am only trying to express me in the way I want to express me. If people call it good, ok, if bad, then ok to. For that is their choice.
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Is choosing to use no tools at all a tool? Perhaps. But that's borderline. However not being aware of the tools is definitely not a tool.
The author of the poem that began all this was unaware of tools that could be used. It's not like she choose to ignore them for some purpose of prosidy, she didn't know that they existed. And that's the problem I have with it. I don't even mind her not knowing about them, I didn't for a long time. However, the fact remains that in order to write good poetry you have to be aware of them; if/when/how you choose to use them is up to you. People call poetry bad all the time. But that's the problem. Most people aren't aware of the difference between their opinion and fact. An example of what I mean. I do not like Walt Whitman's poetry. I think it's too long, there are too many superfluous words, and it's for the most part horribly dull. However, it is good poetry. The schemes and tropes that he uses enhance the content of his words. He writes well, I just don't like reading it. That's my main point here. Perception is not alway reality.
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If Walt Whitman's poetry is good, then why dont you write more like him in order to also be good. Because you find it bad for you. Poetry in my opion is all up to the reader, it is all perception. But once agian this is my view. And I respect yours. I agree with you, that there are tools to make poetry different every single time you write. I agree with the show dont tell philosophy. But once agian, some of the greatest works have done just that told. They are different, and there are different ways to do both. I peronally find the showing method more interesting to read. But once agian I wish to point out that is exactly what it is MY view. Because it all depends on each person wether they view art, as good or bad, and is there for all perception.
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Not only do I disagree with you, but I think you're wrong.
Writers must be made aware of the poetic devices. If they choose not to use them, fine. But if they don't understand that there are poetic devices, I find that to be a problem. Agreed?
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Well, in some instances but I still belive that juding something generally to either be good or bad isnt based on fact but rather perception. Wether or not something is good when created by the use of tools that are given to us because we can imagine, well I do beilve that is why I love art. Because there are so many types, and if it werent for different tools there wouldnt be. However even though this may make art for enjoyable or less, it does not make it good or bad because I once agian stand by its all who you talk to. Once agian, this is the last time Im going to comment on this particular issue at this time. Once agian thanks for the discussion.
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