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we-were-in-love — The only thing you feared even more than love
#bog #butterfly #king #magic #marianne #strange
Published: 2015-01-29 14:56:39 +0000 UTC; Views: 7581; Favourites: 378; Downloads: 38
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Goddamn, what to say about this movie? It was righteously awful, but in the way I like my awful movies to be awful. Random ass songs from the 70s? Yes, please!! Sudden kaleidoscopic acid trip; noooo yesssss!!! The musical numbers ranged from cringing violently in sympathetic embarrassment to going: yeah, right on; I can deal with this.It's problematic and the message is marred by hypocrisy, but as a deliciously weird cartoon it wins my fanvote.
Also it's so strange to me that kids might be hearing shit like Heart and the Doors for the first time. I grew up listening to that good stuff ( I'm not That Old but when I was supposed to be listening to Nirvana I was tuned into the oldies station haha )
Also I'm a sucker for musical universes and now I can title my submissions after music without looking suspect. www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBsXq…
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Comments: 109
I do like this film. Could it have used a bit of a rewrite? Hell yes. But that kinda makes it interesting, I really do like the idea of the "good" fairy princess falling for the "evil" dark fairy king.
Love your sketches by the way, I wish I could pick a favourite, but I can't they're all awesome 
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I loved the movie hehe, but it's my Opinion, I must say when I saw the Trailer it didn't make any sense, so I had a feeling I wouldn't like it but I actually fell in love with it when It came on Friday.
But! I love all your drawings hehe, keep up the awesome work! 
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Okay...so you ripped this movie a nice big one, but yet you did a great job on these sketches. That is pretty fantastic considering that you think the movie is awful.
I liked the movie and so did my entire family. I thought it was a fun to watch movie and the main characters weren't shallow. I like the pairing of Marianne and Bog very much. Yes it is a cliche Beauty and the Beast story, but I thought it was decent.
Anyway, 'nuff ranting. Out of your Marianne sketches, I would say that I like the top right one the best. For Bog probably the first in the second row where he is smiling is pretty cool.
But the drawing on the bottom with the two together is wonderfully done.
Great Job!
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Yes, something can be objectively awful but subjectively delightful. Which is what a lot of this gallery is all about!
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I see. Well, for the record, I actually liked the movie and I am a big fan of both Marianne and Bog.
Regardless of how you feel about the characters or the movie itself, I like the sketches you did.
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I just watched this on netflix and I LOVED it! Its so adorably weird in all the right ways! Beautiful sketches! This movie has made me want to do some fan art again ^_^
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I really hope it gets a sequel. I LOVE this movie. Its my number ONE favorite movie of all time. I LOVE how these two LOVE each other. I love everything about this movie. I would sing a long to some songs. When Marianne sang stronger I literally got goosebumbs. Even when Bog sang mistreated. At first though, I thought they wouldn't get together, but as it went along, I couldn't help it, they are perfect together. Anyway LOVE the work. I just LOVE it.
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Because it's sooooooooooooooo entertaining!
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*ponders* Yes, I believe that's it.
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Oh my goodness, these are all so amazing!
This movie was awesome, and you're so freaking awesome at capturing the characters!
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There were many sketches, and I was happy
Also, yes, it may be awful, but it's the best kind of awful. I love lots of random moments of singing, and if I have excuses to make music references in my fanfic, I'll take them.
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I know how you feel about this movie entirely. I ADORE IT. I saw it twice within a week and i dragged my boyfriend who kept sighing discontently and i was like SHHHHHH!
I would love the image at the bottom be a desktop image!!!
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Ohhhhh!! These are amazing. You really captured the essence of the characters' personalities ^^!! My favs are Bog with the flower and the over the shoulder shot
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I unfortunately missed the movie in theaters, but goddammit I am so hyped for this thing 
I have heard a lot of people complain about pacing and such, and that the couple and message was one of the few redeeming points of it, but I'm still REALLY looking forward to when this comes out on video. Like you, I also like movies that are weird-in-a-kinda-bad-but-still-good way, so we'll see if my hype lasts
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Your first paragraph has made me decide that I need to see this movie.
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I have the same taste in movies! In my honest opinion, a movie doesn't have to be perfect quality, perfect everything, best actors and best songs, to be entertaining. Movies are meant to be fun and they don't have to change your life or anything. I absolutely loved this movie. I loved going 'NOOOOOO!' every time a new song cue came on (which I did a lot) and laughing my butt off at the ridiculous situations and facial expressions and the terrible song choices. It's no masterpiece, that's for sure. But it's amazing in it's own campy way. I took it the way it was intended to be taken; as a movie. It very nearly makes fun of itself, and I like that.
I will for sure be buying this when it comes out. And these two made me laugh a lot, so it's amazing to see this kind of art for each of them! I think your pictures and sketches convey all the qualities and feelings of the characters, and the bottom one is superb~ Excellent work, and a wonderful opinion on movies!
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YES!! That's exactly it. Sometimes yelling 'NOOOOOO!!!!' at the screen is just way more fun than watching a 'good' movie. Strange Magic was the bad movie of my dreams. I have been missing this stuff since the campy fantasy films of the 80s. The only thing I really wish was that it was all about Marianne and the Bog King and that they didn't even bother with prolonged imp-chase scenes or Sunny and Dawn. Also, the whole idea that two people could fall in love in a day and be perfect for each other is ridiculously overdone; if their purpose was to instruct girls on how to find mates they could have avoided that threadbare trope as well.
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I was going to avoid this movie like the plague but when I found out the heroine hooks up with the supposed villain, my life became ruined.
I haven't even seen the dang film yet!
I don't think I'll watch it in theaters though. Probably wait for it to come out on dvd and rent it. Or better yet, watch it on youtube when someone posts it there.
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This drawing just shines, literally. The attention to detail that the faces up above have are amazing. Then down below it all culminates in a perfect little moment between these two and it's just gorgeous. Despite how the movie portrays it, I agree with Marianne, Bog is handsome in his own unique way. Hell, he's got eyes that are way more trustworthy than those shady ones Roland has. I re-watched the movie in theatres and totally picked up on Roland's shiftiness way sooner the second time around in the little nuances he was giving off, even though I knew what was going to happen there seemed to be more of a build up to it after a second look. Hell, even Bog's songs about being "evil" were more him trying to live up to the image of him that others seemed to perceive and he just went with it.
Anyway, this drawing definitely shows all of the nicely defined aspects of Marianne and Bog's growing relationship. The gray over-shadow in contrast to the light actually makes their figures glow somewhat and more sharply outlines their eyes and the emotion in them. Great job! This fandom needs more media representation out there and you've certainly given us something to admire.
Oh and before I go, I realize that despite liking this movie, everyone has parts that they liked/disliked and that differ with every watcher. However, what I personally truly enjoy about this movie and what I think draws the rest of us in as a whole, the fact that it represents adult concepts like "cheating", "compatibility", "not taking someone back just because they're hot and society thinks you should" in a way that we actually want children exposed to them for the first time. They need to understand what real relationships are like (and yes I know they used the word "love" instead of "like" or "will you go out with me", because it's a movie) and that cheating and emotional manipulation are wrong.
OH the thing with Sunny annoyed me, no doubt. I have a feeling that Dawn and Sunny had a talk about the love potion and his plans for it, Marianne would have made DAMN sure about that. On the flip side, I'm not sure that Sunny would have been able to dose her with it if he had to make the choice on his own, I mean say Roland had his share of it and took off leaving Sunny with his own vial of the potion I don't think Sunny would've been able to do it, despite thinking "it won't hurt her" yadda yadda. I think he would've chickened out, in a good way.
NOT that I approve of him helping Roland use it on Marianne, someone whose SAVED SUNNY'S LIFE multiple times (probably in that week alone). And fortunately Bog actually showed up and ruined those plans entirely. ("Mistreated" is still playing in my head right now, lol.) The real bit with the love potion and Bog's own realization and growth on the subject were something I think was very very important and really, Bog's story was centerfold in this movie. Sunny suffered throughout the entire movie because of what he did and then he barely, barely, got his best friend back at the end, showing that even though he's in for a talking-to, he's already been partially punished for what he did.
...nevermind what happened to Roland. God that was funny and I hope that fly girl gets some fun out of that.
I also haven't forgotten Bog king like he was going to stab Marianne during the kidnapping scene and I don't think he would've done it. From what we know of him now, Bog would probably have just put the staff against her chest and threatened her again. *shrug* And Sunny still would've been captured and interrogated rather than outright killed, even for entering the Dark Forest uninvited, because it was more for the fact that they "knew" he was there for the Sugar Plum Fairy than anything else.
Anyway, thanks for drawing this, we need to have more unusual couples like this. Realistic, without the word "true" in front of their feelings and completely changed/broken by their past experiences. So thanks.
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I can safely say I adored this movie and don't get all the hate towards it. Oh well. You did an awesome job with Bog! He's such an interesting looking character!!
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It's not a well-paced movie and some of the songs are cringe-inducing. I can see how for some people that would be a deal-breaker. I like the flawed and goofy and I was very VERY entertained. The bits that were worth it were so worth it and I'm sailing this ship into the sunset LOL!!!
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this is so wonderfully drawn! this movie looks awful yet so enjoyable and I'm glad it seems I was right. I'm definitely going to see it.
Gosh the conversations below sadden me a bit, mainly because you seem so adamant about recent Disney films being "soulless", which IMO is so wrong when you look at everyone who works on an animated film. You're always going to have the marketing/retail/economic aspect, and decisions made to make money, but there's also going to be an artistic, passionate, and creative side simply because of the people working on the films. they wouldn't be there if they didn't love it, and to call the films "soulless" is so insulting to everyone who works on them. :/ there's nothing wrong with creating story experiences that are meant to make you emotional- it seems like you were trying to argue if it's done on purpose, it's not "heartfelt"...?
Idk, I guess different people experience things different ways. It's just odd, bc a lot of times in Frozen (for example) I did feel the kind of emotional awe from the music or from the visuals (although IMO it's far from perfectly executed in terms of narrative, but I still came to love it as a favorite).
man, Idk, I understand valid critique on films, but sometimes I see things said that actually make me sad (I know I shouldn't care lol). I guess it feels personal just because of how affected I am by some things and how much I appreciate them.
It's interesting to explore the commercial aspects of commercial art itself, and where the "artistic integrity" ends and the "economic factor" begins. I think there is no clear definition because at the end of the day, animated films are made (generally) to appeal to people.
omg, I hope you don't think I'm trying to start a big argument, I just kind of rambled.
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Sis, if you like that stuff, it's fine with me. I'm not throwing stones at people who like the sentimental. I'm sure there were people, namely artists and writers, who really put their all into the films and to whom they meant something. But for me *personally* those kind of slick, cheap emotional thrills are soulless. Reality is messier. The universe doesn't preach. Life's lessons are there to be puzzled out in a series of unrelated events that never end 'happily'; nothing is contrived. Strange Magic WAS contrived but it was done so badly that there were moments, perhaps on the behalf of the animators and the actors, that were genuine.
I thought Frozen was fucking awful. There was a a song I kind of liked and the environmental details were gorgeous (My God, all the artists who work on environments deserve a medal every day for being so talented and so overlooked), but nothing about the overwrought story interested me. It was as though all the character had been polished off by too many hands. Brava for Disney fucking finally making a story about anything other than romantic love, though.
Frozen is a better movie than Strange Magic; I am NOT arguing that. The art is better, the pacing is better, the story is much better put together, and the message is clearer, but to me it was so polished as to be, ultimately, soulless. I LIKE watching Disney movies, but I do get bored with the same old tripe.
I don't CARE that you like Frozen. I'm not going to make value judgments on you as a person for liking Frozen. I like that you like things I don't like and probably don't like things I like. It makes me a more tolerant and socially and emotionally intelligent person. So let me simplify all this down to a comparison: you like being strapped in on an emotional roller-coaster ride that's been crafted to make you feel specific things at specific moments; I prefer walking in the woods, wandering where I may, feeling what I want to feel, encountering all the flowers and bogs and brier patches that life and open-ended (or just plain bad) storytelling has to offer.
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Yeah, you can totally hate it all you want, as long as you recognize that there are people who worked on it that put genuine feelings into it, and as a result, many people saw the film as "genuine", despite its very polished finish.
(I agree about the environmental stuff...it's one of my favorite parts of animated films).
I suppose I just find it an odd stance to take when largely the point of storytelling, as it is fabricated, is to manipulate its audience one way or the other: it is contrived, as you put it. Certainly some stories find it more of a goal to do so than others- other writers/artists/etc don't care how you view their work, how you come to conclusions, what you're interpreting. But many do? And it's not a bad thing. And then there's the fact that so many people can interpret the "feeling specific things at specific moments" different since everyone interprets film differently. It just seems like, from that point of view, you're going to count out such a large portion of film and literature...
I can understand the point of the universe doesn't preach, but I suppose when I think about films that have "happy endings" because they are ultimately garnered to children, in this case Frozen, I always think about all of the complicated, messy, awful feelings and scenarios that have risen out of whatever has happened, whatever we "don't see"- because a relationship isn't just going to go back to "normal" just like that after years of avoidance and hurt feelings. I guess I find all the things we don't see in these movies all the more fascinating to build upon the worlds we've been given.
So I guess in my point of view, these types of films that end happily don't stay peaceful and happy forever because it's unrealistic (not to say it can't go back to that, just fluctuate, like life does).
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If it upsets you that I perceive the world differently from you and get a different kind of enjoyment out of media, lemme tell you, it's a complete waste of feeling.
I don't know how far you've traveled outside children's and YA entertainment but there's a whole world of media that shoots higher than the most basic emotional manipulation. I get that some people don't like or understand Literature with a capital L, but I happen to do so. And let me tell you, there's gobs of it. I could completely cut out every single piece of low-brow kids movies and books and never read the end of it. So this business about rejecting a large portion of film and literature is somewhat disingenuous. Whether I did or not it's not as though I'd be missing out on having emotional responses or taking in media. I could read and watch nothing but pure non-fiction and lead a perfectly lush life.
I don't even dislike children's entertainment; I love animation; I love a lot of really REALLY awful shows and movies; I just get tired of seeing the same things and the same social moors and the same stories and the same ploys. I get bored with the film equivalent of Thomas Kincaid paintings where the name of the game is artifice and in exactly the same way over and over again. I don't think children are that intellectually destitute. I also think that children deserve more diversity.
I'm glad a movie, any movie, inspired you to get creative. I'm glad it gave you a platform for your own stories. I don't disapprove of the Frozen fandom--the shoddy media that can be improved upon is the best fodder for fanwork. You rather act like I've stormed in and kicked down your Frozen sandcastle; yet, let me remind you that you are on MY Dev page arguing over my likes and dislikes, not the other way around. I would never come onto your page and tell you the way you feel about Frozen is wrong.
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ALSO I totally admit I have a problem with like... getting too affected by others' opinions and wanting to say something, so that's totally on me. :/
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Yeah I get the feeling that this is at the root of our very minor clash. Well now I *am* going to be patronizing, but in the most well-intended way.
Going through life having emotional reactions to other people's opinions about shit that doesn't matter like television or fashion, etc. (as opposed to shit that DOES matter, like vaccines) is wasted energy. Me not liking Frozen isn't going to kill your immuno-compromised grandmother. I know it can be frustrating, but having the emotional strength to allow other people to have very vastly different likes and dislikes from yourself and not to take it personally is probably the most important part of growing up. You have to understand that just because I don't like Frozen doesn't mean I don't like you or even your fanwork. I just didn't like the movie. I appreciate the fact that you derived something from it, and if I were to make an active attempt, I'm sure I could, too. I've been sucked into some fandoms for REALLY awful media. Yugioh is the worst. Talk about soulless. It became nothing but a media ploy to sell cards. But I found something to like about it all the same.
So just relax please. Stop assuming that my feelings are a dig at you. You were the one who wanted to feel patronized about literature, you know? You might be addicted to negative thoughts. If you are I implore you to get the hell out of there right now while you're young. It's a miserable way to be.
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Right, I understand, and actually this doesn't sound very patronizing to me, it just sounds like well-intended advice from someone who is older (at least, I'm assuming, I'm 20 but I'm taking a guess here).
Haha, oh believe me, I KNOW I am. I know. It's not something I'm unaware about, and actually it's plagued me for years, and it can be about serious things, abstract things, or just plain silly things like this.
Anyway yes, relaxation attempt is happening omg. I am having just one of those days tbqh.
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Oh well, I'm glad it didn't really upset you, because I've had well-intended words backfire. I was never especially a drama lama online when I was younger, thank goodness, but I would get my butt hurt over the dumbest stuff, so I'm speaking from personal experience. My childhood taught me a lot of backward thinking that made doomsday scenarios the obvious choice. I feel like it's just something you grow out of very slowly, but cognitive behavioral therapy is very helpful. And I also have had Those Days. I AM older, but I still feel like I have a long way to go to become the most zen and least reactive person. I just hope this hasn't left you with a horribly negative impression, because that wasn't my intention.
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I certainly don't think of myself as a drama lama (lol) just because how of timid towards confrontation I am.
I've actually gotten into arguments where someone said something really rude out of nowhere to me to prompt the conversation, and then they kept being rude and although it somewhat "resolved" they never actually apologized and even then I was still worried to an extent about the other person's hurt feelings. I guess I just never want to upset people, idk...
Yeah, Those Days. 
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I was thinking of ol' Snapesnogger. That girl. She had such an astonishing shitstorm surrounding her wherever she went. I was posting art on the internet at the same age that she was but either because I just wasn't as popular or because I tended not to get into really dramaful battles I just never had anything like that happen to me. I feel like even then I had some sense of how not to be milked for lulz. People were very hateful toward her (which is not ok) but she also kind of encouraged it all through her behavior. There's a point where you just have to totally deflect someone, or not even bother. If I felt like you were some bitch from tumblr just trying to pick a fight I probably wouldn't have bothered to explain myself.
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I just googled this chick because she sounds like someone that would have some sort of wiki page written about her. Or that Dramatica thing, and I was right omg. Holy shit, this page is looong. Also I just found her tumblr (apparently) and a post just writing about her behavior years ago...
hey wow her art looks great now but granted this is 8 years later owlygem.tumblr.com/tagged/owly…
Anyway, same omg I've never had anything dramatic happen to me on the internet where I prompted it. I have had one rather crazy/hysterical internet friend... that online relationship ended very badly.
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Ofc I have and do, I'm an English minor- I love classic literature and all kinds of media. That sounded a bit patronizing, to say the least. I actually noticed that you referenced Salinger, who's my favorite author, in fact... I guess the difference is I enjoy and see value in all kinds of media and storytelling, and I don't necessarily get tired of cliches or common tropes in the way that you do.
From the way you where phrasing it, it just sounded like you disliked being emotionally manipulated, but that is often what storytelling is designed to do, no matter how intellectually superior you think it is. It's just a part of what narrative inherently is. That was what I didn't understand what you were saying- I do get you don't like to be "spoon-fed", which makes sense...?
I mean, sure, you could read nothing but non-fiction, and some people do, although personally I don't really get it.
I'm not saying the way you feel about anything is "wrong", I'm just questioning it because I felt like you could've been completely cutting off a portion of media because you feel it's beneath you.
Anyway, that wasn't what I intended. :/ I probably shouldn't have said anything in the first place.
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All I was saying was that there's a difference in purpose, storytelling, and quality between something like Salinger and something like a children's cartoon. Children's media asks WAY less of the viewer in terms of depth and usually doesn't ask them to commit anything intellectual at all, and I think that's underselling a child's mind. If saying that literature is (usually) more complex and intellectual than a children's movie is patronizing I super don't know what to tell you. If I were to argue that Nobokov was more intellectually complex than Curious George, would you really disagree? When I told you I didn't know how far you'd gone outside the realm of children's media I was being perfectly sincere. Some people only read YA books and have no idea that anything else out there is really different. They aren't bad or stupid people; they just haven't had a lot of reading experiences.
I also think you are lumping together emotions with ideas. Literature often uses emotion as a vehicle for an idea, but is not necessarily an end to itself. The purpose isn't to get me to *feel* something it's to ask me to *think* something. I don't have to be emotionally invested in the slightest. So, no, I don't agree that the purpose of storytelling is to be emotionally manipulating, at least not for the sake of it. I didn't HAVE to feel anything about Billy Pilgrim. I didn't HAVE to feel anything about Pecola Breedlove. I especially don't have to feel anything about the Glass children. Zooey Glass wouldn't even want me to! LOL With literature, there's still a lot of meat to be had even if you're not emotionally invested. With a Disney movie there isn't, except visually (which makes them worth watching anyway, imo).
But besides that, we are way off in the weeds, because I'm not even saying that I don't like literature to ask me to feel something, but that I don't like media that tries to plot my emotional course so blatantly. 'Spoon-feeding' as you put it. I prefer media that presents an open-ended series of events and let's me decide how I feel about them.
Yet again, I like to watch a lot of children's media ( And let me remind you this conversation is taking place on some fanart for a pretty cliche, derpo kid's movie.) so I'm not even saying it has to be Lit or else? I am puzzled at how you concluded that I'm 'cutting off a portion of media' when all I'm saying is that I'm getting bored of the same old Disney schtick. I watched Frozen and didn't like it. I gave it a rum go.
So now I'm going to turn it on you and ask, why in the world does it even matter what I think of Frozen? I'm just some rando mediocre artist on the internet. We're not friends. To my knowledge we've never even talked before (I apologize if we have and I've forgotten you). What does it even matter that I, personally, feel like so much of film is soulless? Why is it important to you that I like Frozen? Or don't dislike Frozen as the case may be? Would it really be any of your business if I were just a COMPLETE literature snob and only read American Modernist Literature from 1937 to 1945?
I'm not mad with you but I'm really baffled that you don't seem to understand that it's not my job to defend my feelings about Frozen or literature to you any more than it's your job to defend your feelings about Frozen or literature to me or anybody else. Have people been giving you crap about liking Frozen? You kind of act like someone who's been getting a lot of shit for liking children's cartoons, and it's nobody else's fucking business what you like.
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Also again- I hope I didn't bother you too much with this. I think I just really need to like, not start things when I don't need to (it's just hard).
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Of course not, I'm just saying that intellectualism and critical thought doesn't always necessarily equal superiority or a sense of being "better", in my opinion. It calls the question of what "good" even means, which is a very sticky subject.
I guess I misunderstood your point. I wasn't thinking about getting bored of a "shtick", I was thinking because you seemed to be saying you didn't want to be led on an emotional course, you chose to not watch or read a lot of things because in my opinion, much of literature and film takes that course of providing a narrative for emotional reasons, or at least USES emotion. I think we just think about literature in different ways because I prefer to be emotionally invested in what I'm reading or watching, generally, at least to some extent. Maybe I just tie them together closely. Right now (for some reason) I'm thinking of Camus' The Stranger and how the main character was completely devoid of emotion in order to get across an existentialist viewpoint of a meaningless world. But even then while I was critically thinking about the novel, I still... felt things while reading it? I think that's a good example of a book for your point of view though, because it does not ask you to care about the main character since HE doesn't care.
I guess you don't have to feel anything about anything you read, but for me it certainly makes the experience more worthwhile, because otherwise I wouldn't care about what I'm reading, no matter how intellectually deep its themes are.
Well, honestly yes, I do hear this kind of thing a lot lately. I don't mean to take anything out personally on you though. It wasn't meant to be personal, I was just curious because I guess I didn't understand your view.
And yeah, it really does or at least should not matter at all what you think, I mean, I shouldn't have started a discussion about it since it feels too personal? But that's just my problem. lol no we don't know each other... I actually don't remember how I stumbled upon your fanart but I did somehow yesterday.
And right, I think it is a little ironic to have this conversation of an art piece done for Strange Magic, of all things.
To reiterate, I wasn't trying to get you to defend your feelings, just to expand on them or think on them; I actually didn't want to be in any kind of argument, which I think I failed at a bit (it was probably inevitable from starting the discussion in the first place).
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Right, I don't think it's even a good idea to use 'better' in an objective sense because how even COULD you? Unless you mean in terms of craftsmanship or storytelling (And in which case I've already conceded that Frozen is objectively a better put-together movie than Strange Magic, by leaps and bounds). You could use it simply to mean that you felt something was better 'for you' and in that case, yeah, The Dispossessed is a better book than than See Spot Run. But I don't think the more intellectual means more better, per se. It sometimes does for me, and sometimes doesn't. I do think it's good for a person to challenge themselves. I muckled my way through Lolita, a lot of it went WAY over my head (I don't speak French or Russian), but I feel like it was a worthwhile experience. There are some books that I just CAN'T. To the Lighthouse, my God. And Wuthering Heights is my white whale. Cannot read that book. I've read some dry literature but there's just something about it. And some modernist literature just makes me want to curl up and die.
I think you're right in that we use literature in different ways. I sometimes approach books in a Vulcan-like state of total disinterest in the emotions of the characters. Most of the time, really. Because the intellectual puzzles are what interest me the most. Getting bogged down in a character's emotional state, ESPECIALLY if it's not convincingly written, just snaps me out of the story. It's not that I don't care about people's feelings; I do, deeply, but *real* people. I often don't really give a rat's ass about some pretend person in a book. It's more important to me that they're written meaningfully and serve the story. I see emotions from a psychology standpoint, not something to get caught up in.
I did get frustrated with you, because I felt like you were hinging your happiness on my liking this thing, and jumping too swiftly to conclusions about my being a snob because I didn't. This struck me as unfair. I'm not sorry you started the discussion. I think if you're curious about someone's opinion on something you probably shouldn't open with a negative emotional response to it. I misinterpreted your intentions.
If anybody is giving you shit about liking Frozen or especially coming onto your page or coming into your space to give you shit, they are way out of line. Unfortunately this kind of behavior is wildly rampant on the internet. You kind of have to cultivate an Oh-well-I-liked-it-too-bad-for-you kind of attitude. You can enjoy the most hardcore literature and the most goofy cartoons at the same time and not even be sorry.
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Yeah, for sure. I agree... it's just hard to actually compare certain things: apples to oranges, and all that. Oh god, I hated Wuthering Heights, thank you... It just really irritated me and I didn't find anything meaningful about it and was just kind of angry the whole time I read it lmao. Have you ever read Moby Dick? I've heard that's terrible to get through, but my friend read it recently (I think for class) and enjoyed it, so now I'm curious to try it myself.
I always feel I must be able to relate to characters who you are "supposed" to, or at least find aspects of them that are possibly human. I think because storytelling serves (often) to reflect real life, I feel empathy through characters, even though they're not real. The main thing for me when reading something is if I either care about the characters and/or care about the story and the message(s), and it seems you're all about the latter most of the time. Characters always come first for me, pretty much. Maybe it's because I'm so interested in the type of storytelling where the characters really matter, I'm not sure...
Yes it's not a good way to start out a discussion, I just couldn't help but say it- but really I should've left out anything personal/emotional for me and left it at that.
People on the internet can be idiots honestly... I guess it's because it's a platform of social anonymity, but it's still rather mind boggling.
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You know I actually really liked what I read of Moby Dick? But I hear that the boring part is when it goes onto like a 400 page spiel about whaling. I think that could either be interesting or really boring. I know that when I reread The Sea Wolf I generally skip over the bit where Humphrey is fixing the ship, and it might be like that. I don't read to empathize with people, but human behavior is WAY more interesting than building a boat, IMO.
I'm not sure what it is about Wuthering Heights! It isn't that all the characters are awful; I can deal with and enjoy anything by Fitzgerald and all his characters tend to be human scum. It's just that the story was so pointless and meandering and there are all these weird details about suckling puppies that DON'T NEED TO BE THERE. I really appreciate that ladies were penning novels way back in the 1800s but dang, girl. Edit yo shit!
I get attached to characters, not in literature, but in games and movies and things. Media where characters are the only thing really driving the enterprise. But my empathy for these people really comes and goes. With Frozen, I super couldn't bring myself to care about any of these people, for whatever reason, and aside from the characters, what is there? Nothing much. The sociopath was sort of interesting theoretically but the way he continued his hamming after the people he was trying to dupe had left was incredibly obnoxious to me. He was acting for *us* and that kind of breaking of the fourth wall annoys the bajeesus out of me. I liked the ideas behind it but not the execution. I could get into it if I really wanted to, and enjoy writing fanfiction and making fanart for it, but it would be an intentional push to do so, not because I was particularly inspired by the source material. With franchise media like Frozen and Harry Potter and so on I feel like the lush grounds for fanwork is way more interesting and valuable than the story, itself. I kind of hate Harry Potter as a series of way over-hyped, not-very-thoughtful books, but I love that the universe has inspired so many people to write and draw.
I dunno; I'd say ultimately there wasn't any harm done. It was probably good for us 
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Oh, Jack London! I couldn't place that title but no wonder it made me think of London instantly. I tried reading either White Fang or Call of the Wild a few months ago and never continued (although I wanted to).
I just remember the dysfunctional relationships and "dark romance" just... really bothered me and annoyed me and I couldn't really get into it at all. Do you read Dickens? There's some literature with interesting casts of characters... He write caricatures, pretty much. But empathetic ones because damn he writes a lot about oprhaned young poverty stricken boys. I've been in the middle of David Copperfield for way too long...
Mm, I guess with literature it just helps all the more if I am interested in the characters. Like, for example, speaking of Salinger again, Catcher in the Rye has been my favorite book for years and years not just because of the symbolism and the themes and the fantastically interesting and compelling way it's written, but because I really felt for Holden Caulfield as a character. I've heard from someone that really don't like that book because they didn't like Holden and it always breaks my heart a bit.
Yeah, if you can't feel for or care about the characters in something where it's insanely character driven, it kinda ruins it omg.
Oh that's too bad- I've loved Harry Potter for a long time, but it's definitely something that was part of my childhood. I think it's wonderful how much creativity it's inspired, too... So many people loved that series, and all ages. It always makes me happy when something ultimately (at first) is garnered towards children but it can be relatable and loved my so many different people.
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Both White Fang and Call of the Wild are solid reads. My aunt complained that Jack London's writing was too male, which it is, if you have any bias. He's also weirdly obsessed with determinism and goes off on spiels. I liked them more as a child but now find them very simplistic as far as the source of human and animal behavior goes.
I've read a lot of Dickens for school, and hated it, but I realized later that Dickens really isn't *meant* to be read all in one go, like a book. It's serial stories published in a newspaper and meant to be taken in the same way as a soap opera, which would be just as tedious to watch all in a stretch. Without the gaps of time between stories all the twists and turns come too fast and feel more ridiculously fabricated. Not that they aren't, but the space allows you to go, 'Oh my gosh, all this time I was thinking Sir Blipblap was just some guy but he's actually Lipdoodle's UNCLE!!!' instead of going, 'OK, what the hell, two chapters ago this guy was just some guy and now he's an uncle? This is dumb'. I think that, also, Dickens really deserves some knowledge about the world he was writing about, the rise of the middle class, industrialization. As stories, I don't enjoy them too much. As pieces of human history, I find it all much more interesting.
Haha now that's funny! I find Holden a loathsome and despicable little brat. As a human being, I want to drop him off a cliff. I suppose I don't hate him as a character, though I did in highschool when I was first asked to read it. I was set up, though, by a teacher who claimed we'd really like this book because we were supposed to have some commonness with Holden. I was excited by the prospect but, upon reading it, was infuriated and insulted that someone would think I'd have anything to do with this lazy, entitled sack of shit. I read it again later as an adult and liked it much better. Salinger is not sentimental. He meant Holden to be loathsome, and I appreciated that. His hypocrisy and spinelessness were the whole point. People who feel like they have to be besties with the main character to like a book are missing out on a good deal. A friend of a friend hates The Great Gatsby because she didn't like the characters as people and, while she gets to read however she wants, it made me a little frustrated haha. She was misunderstanding the whole purpose of the story as a cautionary tale against the wild excess of the 20s.
I love Salinger's writing and settings, but, as a person of color has put it, he writes exclusively about rich, white people's problems, and that is absolutely true. His stories are not inclusive and for some people that's a dealbreaker. Holden disgusts me because he's wrapped up in his own little woe-is-me world but has all these resources at his disposal. His greatest failing is himself. As a person who's grown up in tremendous poverty, without private schools, good looks, rich parents, I find his whining ridiculous. Franny and Zooey, too, but I feel their situation more, because the Buddhist existential crisis is 1. far more interesting than teen angst, 2. far less often written about by several degrees of magnitude and therefore more rare and precious, and 3. I've experienced Buddhist existential crisis and so it means more to me personally. Still, I feel more in common with Pecola Breedlove than Holden or Franny.
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If anyone is too male of an author, I've heard that about Hemingway for sure lol. But I've never read him.
Anyway, I want to read London because I liked the writing style upon the first few pages.
Yep, they were serialized, one reason why they're so incredibly long... But I like them.
Haha that's sad to me, but okay. I mean we all react to stuff in different ways. I don't find him "loathsome" by any means, but I certainly find him entitled, spoiled, etc. But he also has major issues, and I just love the way he was written. I don't even agree that Salinger meant Holden to be "loathsome". I think he meant him to be likable and unlikable at the same time. I think he wanted it to be really frustrating.
And yeah, I agree with you about your friend- no one in The Great Gatsby is supposed to be "likable" necessarily, although tbh I sympathized with Nick, despite his judgy attitude. But yeah no that book is quite good... WHICH REMINDS ME OF HOW MUCH I HATED THE NEW MOVIE.
Well, I think you have to look at it in its own context. Yeah, he has all these resources, be he finds no meaning in anything- imo that book can also be said to be around an existential crisis just as well. As someone who has a privileged enough life (not rich but middle class) but deals with anxiety, I guess I find it meaningful in that way. Holden is clinically depressed. I often feel bad about my own problems because they're not "real" problems, they're all non-issues in my head or about myself or about life etc, but they're still there.
I guess I just feel one misses the point when they ride it all off as "whining". But yeah like, I get Salinger wasn't a diverse, inclusive writer or anything. I think he just wrote some powerful stuff, personally- and my favorite thing about it was the way that he wrote it. I loved his writing style, and how he captured the characters' voices.
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OMG! This is amazing! Yes! The internet needs more of Strange Magic, it was a great film! I don't care what other people say it was...awwwwwwwww. My feels!
Sorry for the mini rant. 
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