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WonHitWonder — I'm Suing You: Why Do We Make Mary Sues?

Published: 2012-06-29 03:56:34 +0000 UTC; Views: 15088; Favourites: 272; Downloads: 64
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Description First of all, I freely admit that what I say isn't gospel. I am a total amateur at art and writing. I've learned everything that I know via the internet and a few drawing books. It's just that I appreciate all of the tutorials here on dA that have helped me out, and I want to put a little bit of my own methods back in.



Let me get this out of the way:  I only write tutorials if I feel that I have something to add to the topic or if I feel like it's one that few people touch on.  So then why on Earth am I writing about Mary Sues?  Everyone's written about them!  And it's true; this topic has been well-explored in countless places that it seems pointless to go over it again.  Heck, you can find one of my favorite Sue-torials here (WARNING: THESE THINGS ARE HILARIOUS).  I'm not even going to tell you what a Mary Sue is in here, you can easily find that elsewhere.  How could I possibly have anything new to add to the topic?

What I want to talk to you about today is not what Mary Sues are, but why they exist in the first place.  'Cause there's a lot of them out there, even with all of this information available on how to avoid them.  As former queen of Sue creation, I want to tell you why I think I and so many others have created so many.  I figure that knowing the reason behind the Sue will help you to recognize when you're making one.


Love Me, Love Me, Say That You Love Me

Why do we write?  Artistically, it's because we have something to say or something that we need to create so that we can fully express ourselves.  But what about from a human perspective?  Why do we post our work so that other people can read it?  Why do we hope that millions will hang on to our every word?

Acceptance.  Recognition.  Power.   Respect.

And you know what?  That's ok.  We're all human.  It's ok to be this way.  Typically, these are the reasons that we post our work.  We want to be accepted by our peers, especially those who are better than us.  We want to be recognized for the hard work that we've put forth and want some sort of end result from all of that work.  We want the power that comes when other people respect us and our creations (not that we necessarily want to abuse that power; usually, we just want to be important for one shining moment).  

These are usually our guiltiest, most secret, most locked-up reasons for writing.  They're not the only reasons, but they certainly are the dirtiest.  So when we write our characters, these are some of the things that we may be secretly trying to achieve.  We assume that if people like or respect our characters on a personal level, they'll like or respect us.  Unfortunately, that's not always the case.


One in a Million is Hard to Accept

Many writers obsess with making their characters "unique."  They wrongly assume that a unique exterior equals a unique interior, and it doesn't.  Most well-seasoned authors know this.  But what's even harder for us to accept is that our character's personality can't truly be unique.  It's impossible.  

Thousands of people with your character's personality have lived, died, and will continue to live and die for many years to come.  People with your personality.  People with my personality.  And that's a good thing.  

People connect with characters who they understand.  How many times have you read a great character and thought "They remind me of my mom/dad/sibling/friend/boss/co-worker!"?  Characters teach us about ourselves and the people around us.  That's why many readers hate Mary Sues; we don't know anyone like them because they're not realistic.  We can't connect with them and we can't learn from them because we can't relate to them.  I'm not advocating making your characters stereotypical, but just be careful.  Don't get so caught up with making them unique that you forget to make them just like the rest of us.


Playing Character Dress-Up

There is yet another enormous reason that authors make Mary Sues that I haven't brought up: self-insertion.  These characters aren't always about gaining respect or recognition.  They're about fantasizing, and it's really no different from sex fantasies.  The difference is that instead of drooling over a buff/busty model, we're drooling over seeing ourselves in our "perfect" form.  We're drooling over seeing our own success in self-improvement and perfection.  Mary Sues do the things that we can't because we are flawed.  We wish we were them, so we pretend to be them, playing dress-up in their skin.  Sound creepy?  It is.  Don't do it.

We also live through Sues who may not be perfect, but embody the traits that we respect.  Cool.  Smart.  Funny.  Sarcastic.  The list goes on.  It's like a father pushing his unwilling son to be an expert runner because the father never had the chance.  Characters don't exist for us to live through them; they have their own lives, and I don't think it's very kind of us to assume that we can do that to them.  


The Thematics

On a final note, Mary Sues often exist in a vacuum in which the character has nothing to do.  Not plot-wise, but THEME-wise.  Characters exist to present themes to the reader, often about human nature and the existence of personal flaws.  If your character has nothing to prove to the reader, they have no thematic point and become bland, two-dimensional, and often a Mary Sue.  

Have a point to make in your stories!  This is a great protection against Mary Sues; if they're off doing things and helping you prove your themes, it's more likely they'll be too busy to be Sues (and you might be too busy to force them).  Just know your character and know what your point in having that character is.

This is the area in which you can make up for the fact that your character can't be unique.  Thematically, you can use your character in a unique way!  Use their personality to explore a theme that other people haven't touched on.


In Conclusion

These are just my theories.  I haven't even gone over every single type of Mary Sue, just the "classic" one.  But know that people dump these kinds of Mary Sue traits on characters because they want us to like/respect/pity/etc. the character so that we will in turn like/respect/pity/etc. the author.  After all, the author is the proud mother/father whose creations sprung forth from their brow to entertain us!  What many don't realize is that excessive perfection or the glamorization of bad traits won't get you the respect you're looking for.  A character is best when they have room to grow and change.  A true Mary Sue has no room to change because she's already perfect.

On some level, I think that we all already know this.  I know that I used to live in a lot of denial about my characters' Sue statuses.  "Hey!  The only reason that her eyes glow is because she was orphaned and this is how the magic in her body chooses to express that pain!  She's not a Sue!"  Um… b*llsh*t.  I knew that that character sucked, but I couldn't admit it.  I thought that a failed character meant that I was a failed writer.

As writers, the hardest, most important thing to do is to learn how to LET GO.  If something doesn't work or isn't good… we have to learn how to delete it.  We have to learn to stop worrying about impressing other people with them.  Look at your character and really ask yourself:  Is he/she a Sue?  If they are, just sit down with them for a minute.  Have an intervention.  Take them off to rehab and work with them extra hard to cure their Sue.  Learn who they really are and know what you need to do to help them become full-fledged people.

As always, there are always exceptions.  Some people write Sues on purpose for comedy or to comment on the nature of the phenomenon and those who create them.  If you feel you have a good reason for making one, go ahead.  Just know what you're doing before you decide to break the rules.  Good luck with your characters.  And as always:


Never, ever forget: I might be wrong. I try not to be, but nobody's perfect.  Art is one giant matter of opinion.  Feel totally free to disagree or to only utilize the bits that you agree with.  If you found this helpful, disagree with me, or just prefer another method to my own, feel free to tell me about it in the comments.  After all, I'm here to learn too.
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Comments: 83

mmpratt99 [2014-11-28 01:53:44 +0000 UTC]

I solved the problem with Mary Sues in my stories by making them annoying, socially-awkward types, the ones you usually see hanging around cosplay conventions.

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unicornomics [2014-07-22 17:55:20 +0000 UTC]

I made one by accident because I was sick of loser protagonists that were terrible at everything and whiny about (again) everything because apparently that's what pop culture thinks is relatable now.

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Esvandetta [2013-08-08 07:10:53 +0000 UTC]

hahahha This is so true!! Most people make Mary Sues to 


A. be different

B. have their character be liked/pitied

C. have an experience/life that they've never had


It's based off a fantasy about 80% of the time (if not all the time).


Most Some amateurs don't understand that, due to the fact other amateurs like them are making MS's, having a normal character will make them "different", because some people will read their stuff and be able to associate. Association is one of the first steps to recognition and that's what all writers want (it's true... some just try to deny it and say "I'm doing it for fun/me")


and haha I thought I recognized you! ^__^ have I posted on this before?

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vi0letdreamer [2013-07-10 15:52:01 +0000 UTC]

I have a character in a story of mine that I based off myself, simply because I was afraid of making a mary sue. I mean, I'm not perfect in real life, so if the character was like me, it wouldn't be a mary sue. It's easier to write because I know what the character's perspective is like, and I can still make it sound like a real person.

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SomaRuiz [2013-05-04 16:48:24 +0000 UTC]

Have you read the webcomic "Ensign Sue Must Die"? I kind of like the interpretation and satire the author makes of the trope, kinda like the "How to make a mary sue" tutorial you included. XD

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movedelsewhere [2013-01-21 20:30:13 +0000 UTC]

Very good tuts!!

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Spinkx [2012-10-11 09:57:24 +0000 UTC]

Nice writing with a fun quiz from Amberwillow. Glad I took a look. Thanks!

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WonHitWonder In reply to Spinkx [2012-10-12 03:47:49 +0000 UTC]

No prob, I'm glad to hear that you liked this!

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Nuei [2012-10-01 20:57:21 +0000 UTC]

Haha! This mary sue thingy reminded me why I hate that goddamn Fuka from persona 3 and Chie from persona 4. They were such bad, awful characters, and their evolution through the game was almost none, as they were both plain mary sue dumb asses.
Yet, Yosuke and mainly Junpei from the exact same series were the most mary sued characters ever: they were horny teens who fail at seduction, just like good old Brock from pokemon.

Yet, that mary sueness turned them into passionate characters who ended up stronger and devoted to one only girl, who made them grow beautifully.

So I guess some characters CAN start off as a sue, but most MUST change during the story.

Or else, make their preset personality grow mature, like Naruto or Kamina from Tengen Toppa, so they can prove they are not fools, but simply characters that hide before a mask of something. Even if their goals are clear, nobody ever took them seriously and it's beautiful to see a relaxed character achieve things as intensly as any character else!

Change is probably the best fuel to make a character/ story unique, or at leats very appealing. I wonder how true is that... What do you think about it?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to Nuei [2012-10-08 02:25:56 +0000 UTC]

Change is EXACTLY what a character needs -- good eye there! Without change to act as a catalyst, the characters have no motivation to improve themselves or fix their lives. And the type of change can really set a story apart and help it break away from the archetypes that all stories are based on.

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Kikubi [2012-09-21 17:05:43 +0000 UTC]

I just have to ask: was the character with the glowing eyes the same one you mentioned in the "I'm My #1 Fan" tutorial with the two different-colored eyes?

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WonHitWonder In reply to Kikubi [2012-09-22 18:09:48 +0000 UTC]

Nah, it was a different one. I had two awful characters with crazy-eyes

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Kikubi In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-09-22 23:37:57 +0000 UTC]

Woah, man. You got yourself a serious eye problem there.

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WonHitWonder In reply to Kikubi [2012-09-25 03:59:22 +0000 UTC]

Yeah
It was my guilty cliche that I kept for so long, but I had to let it go eventually

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Kikubi In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-09-25 17:43:54 +0000 UTC]

Mm. Yeah, I think everyone has a few of those. Mine used to be that every story I wrote featured a romance between a spunky tomboy and a mysteriously tragic and effeminate guy as the central plot element. Oddly enough, reading manga got me over that one. Lol

Boy, am I glad we got past that one....

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to Kikubi [2012-10-08 02:18:44 +0000 UTC]

Mine used to be the "Sympathy Sue" trope from TV Tropes. Just a poor, sad, tragic character that no one appreciates until they know just how much he/she's been through, then they shower him/her with sympathy and praise. Just learning about the trope made me stop doing it, I was embarassed for myself o_o

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Kikubi In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-10-08 22:51:43 +0000 UTC]

Mmm..... If you knew how many of those I've edited..... For the same person.............

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WonHitWonder In reply to Kikubi [2012-10-08 23:55:30 +0000 UTC]

Oh my...

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

DeathBright [2012-09-18 01:32:02 +0000 UTC]

The Mary Sue test, I think it does work.

[link]

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to DeathBright [2012-09-18 17:43:17 +0000 UTC]

I love that test, I actually have it in my favorites and I refer to it each time I have a new character concept that I want to test. It's an awesome resource!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Jazninstar [2012-09-17 11:45:50 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for your tutorial
and now I know what to base on when i feel i want to change my characters again LOL
I can't make up my mind

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to Jazninstar [2012-09-18 17:42:11 +0000 UTC]

I'm glad that you liked this
I hope your story goes well, it can be tough to decide what you want your characters to be like and to keep it consistent

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Jazninstar In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-09-19 10:51:32 +0000 UTC]

:3

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Velink [2012-09-17 10:27:46 +0000 UTC]

Help! my character is a Mary Sue, how do I change her?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to Velink [2012-09-18 17:41:00 +0000 UTC]

That'll be a bit difficult, since everyone's case is a bit different. If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to work with you a bit and offer some advice on fixing her up. Feel free to note me with maybe a link to a piece of writing with her and/or a picture of her (if you've drawn her), I'd be glad to help out!

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Velink In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-09-18 22:32:03 +0000 UTC]

Cool
will do sometime later, thanks XD

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

secretuniverse [2012-07-23 11:13:32 +0000 UTC]

I love the title of this guide.

And then I love the guide.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to secretuniverse [2012-08-01 06:20:25 +0000 UTC]

Thanks! I came up with the title at the last minute, I'm a sucker for puns XD

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

XxforbiddenartistxX [2012-07-06 13:41:00 +0000 UTC]

This was extremely helpful! My main OC, the one in the pic, got an 8 on the test.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to XxforbiddenartistxX [2012-07-06 21:10:54 +0000 UTC]

That's good! I'm really happy that you found this useful and that your OC is doing well

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

XxforbiddenartistxX In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-07-06 21:44:44 +0000 UTC]

You can read his bio here. [link]

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tikkytat [2012-07-03 22:54:08 +0000 UTC]

Very well put!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to tikkytat [2012-07-06 21:11:02 +0000 UTC]

Lol, thanks!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

UmbrellaUnrequired [2012-07-02 13:29:55 +0000 UTC]

I wish I could give you a hug...

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to UmbrellaUnrequired [2012-07-06 21:11:28 +0000 UTC]

You can over the internet!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

UmbrellaUnrequired In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-07-10 18:16:59 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to UmbrellaUnrequired [2012-07-19 04:06:17 +0000 UTC]

Awwww!!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

UmbrellaUnrequired In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-07-20 01:14:24 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to UmbrellaUnrequired [2012-07-20 01:37:15 +0000 UTC]

Ok, I can't beat that hug XD

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

UmbrellaUnrequired In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-07-24 17:10:58 +0000 UTC]

Me neighter.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

sumgie1 [2012-07-01 07:33:38 +0000 UTC]

It was a nice read. An intriguing topic. It's focus on psychology and our "deep dark desires" probably adds greatly to why this was so interesting. The idea that we are "living through Sues who may not be perfect, but embody the traits that we respect." is probably the one that got me doing "Hmm" the most... And it got me on a quite of an interesting analysis of one of my own characters.

Personally, my primary goal with my art is to "bring to life" what interests me, thrills me, is relate-able/topical to me. That is why many of the characters I create are either literary versions of me or embodiments of some ideal. So they can be considered Mary Sues but I'm okay with it.

I feel that with my idealized characters, it is not that I want to necessarily be them but it is just that I like them. So that is one reason behind Mary Sues you may have missed - they are sometimes created as an embodiment of some of the writer's ideal, something like "I like this person, I wish he/she existed" (as opposed to "I like this person, I wish I was him/her").

Now, as I mentioned, I did think about one of my characters as I was reading it. And I would like to share some thoughts. I will talk about Wilė - my character from the apocalyptic action-filled story of platonic love I mentioned before.

I consider her a Mary Sue by definition because she was designed to embody some traits I like in spite of looking not so realistic to me. Ironically, I tested her with "The Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test" mentioned in the comments and got "Most likely Not-Sue." This probably shows how loose the term is.

Anyway, beside the primary goal, Wilė was intended be an example and an inspiration. Her philosophy is that regrets will get you nowhere, that, if one is to achieve one's goal, one has to act "in a deliberate, controlled, determined and persistent manner." She is intended to be inspirational because of her perseverance, dedication to her loved-one and how she gets energy from her hate for the rest of the world. So I thought that this may have subtracted some of her Mary-Sue-ness as you've mentioned the importance of characters serving goals. Have I understood your point correctly there?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to sumgie1 [2012-07-06 21:15:12 +0000 UTC]

I believe that you have. I admire your willingness to admit the ways that your character is a Sue, but I also think that you know how to use her and why you gave her the load of positive traits that you have. It reminds me a bit of comic-book superheroes (especially the older ones); they're meant to be more idealized to be role models for the youth of America. I enjoyed reading your comment, thanks a lot for leaving it.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

sumgie1 In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-07-07 06:26:36 +0000 UTC]

Thank you. And comparison to the old-school superheroes was an interesting thought. And you're welcome.

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pferty [2012-07-01 05:50:25 +0000 UTC]

I really liked reading this! just as i liked all of your tutorials, but now i'm worried that one of my characters is a Sue.... FUUUUUUUU, i thought i already stopped making them years ago!!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to pferty [2012-07-01 05:57:12 +0000 UTC]

Man, it's hard not to make them! I have trouble with that, I'll be writing something, then I'll come back to it and facepalm because it's so dumb and Sue-tastic. Good luck with your character, just sit down with them and sort of "work together" so that you'll both be happy with the result!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

pferty In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-07-01 06:06:09 +0000 UTC]

thanks, while i read your comment, i asked my brother if he thought Elydia (the character) was a mary sue, he asked 'did she like come from a poor family and then rich?' i replied with '...no,she was an orphan and then into the rich. FUUUUUUUUU' and he just started laughing at me. I really need to have a sit down with this character.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to pferty [2012-07-01 06:11:28 +0000 UTC]

That's unfortunate Good luck, I hope your character turns out to be the best that she can be.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

TheEmberRaven [2012-06-30 02:51:04 +0000 UTC]

Great piece as usual. I like your bluntness and well-made points. Did you ever think you'd be good at writing book reviews, because you've done several pieces about books and writing?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

WonHitWonder In reply to TheEmberRaven [2012-07-01 03:12:10 +0000 UTC]

Maybe, though I'd have to read it all the way through (I sometimes quit halfway through, even if it's a required book for me to read). Though, I've written entire papers on books I didn't read! I bet it'd be fun to review books, I could see myself doing that for a living if my other goals fall out.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

TheEmberRaven In reply to WonHitWonder [2012-07-01 23:34:11 +0000 UTC]

Haha, I know what you mean about not completely readnig books, esp for school.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1


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