Comments: 40
Rexart35 [2017-01-08 03:59:39 +0000 UTC]
"No Villain"
WHAT? No, I'd rather have a villian in my stories and villian and antagonist ARE the same thing (since you don't know an antagonists is idk why yo bothered to put that up) having a obvious villian allow the audience to hate an evil character and be satisfied over when that villian meets defeat.
Sorry if I sounded but...I disagree with you on the villian things...makes no sense to me at all
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Panapoints In reply to Rexart35 [2018-04-02 15:05:34 +0000 UTC]
Err... It isn't the same thing. Villian is an evil character hindering the characters. Antagonist is just someone against the goal of the characters: they don't need to be evil, just to prevent them from achieving their goal. For example, Hiccup is the antagonist of Dragons: narrativefirst.com/articles/tr…
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Obelis [2016-08-06 14:28:11 +0000 UTC]
Hooray to energetic characters!
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evinca [2014-05-10 09:11:01 +0000 UTC]
I agree with many of these, but especially that story doesn't need a villain! Especially some super-bad-evil-horrible-villain... Oh man, that's boring, I'm so sick of those. It doesn't need evil villain even with a good reason to be bad, because it's much more interesting if you aren't sure which side to choose yourself. In real life conflicts, is there always some bad guy to blame? Well of course we people often create them because we really just want someone to blame (and sometimes there is). But many times the reason for conflicts is more complicated, and it's when people can't understand each other or it's about surviving. No bad and good guys here, is there? No. If you kill the bad guy, that's it? No. I'm bored with simple villains that do bad things because someone did something wrong to them and now they want some revenge (or even worse, they just want to rule the world without a good reason... okay Loki, I believe you had your reasons!).
And even more interesting! Why don't we take two protagonists and make them antagonists to each other? I have one story like that, and I give both character chance to tell their point of view and why they are against of each other.
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Rexart35 In reply to evinca [2017-01-08 04:00:10 +0000 UTC]
Bad super evil villains are always needed
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LimeGreenBunny [2014-02-23 23:35:06 +0000 UTC]
"Happy, Mature, Functional Romance"
I really like that you have that on your list. I very much agree that it gets old and predictable when there is almost no diversity in the types of romances in fictional media. It's this very thing that makes me claim that I don't like the romance genre or romantic subplots. That really isn't true though, because when I find an original and unique romance (AKA more realistic and non-highschooly) I often quite enjoy it.
Another thing with romances that have to have drama and fighting is that, in real life, they basically NEVER work out in the long run. Unless the characters actually work to get past the things that are causing them to fight, I just cannot believe that they will be deeply in love for the rest of their lives like the writer so often claims.
I don't know if you watch the Legend of Korra but the romantic development in season 2 pleasantly surprised me. SPOLIERS AHEAD. When Mako and Korra got together at the end of season 1 I was like "NUUUUUUU it's another one of these constant-conflict relationships that would NEVER work in real life!" And sure enough, that's what it was. But then at the end of season 2 I was very much surprised that they admitted to eachother that it wasn't working, and broke up. I thought it was a very mature decision on the part of the writers and the characters, and it also showed that the characters had developed a lot over the season.
Anyhoo, I love your guides. I always look forward to seeing new ones.
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chill13 [2014-01-20 17:48:23 +0000 UTC]
I really loved this entire list but two stood out to me.
Sets: I recognize this in the book series 39 Clues that I have been reading lately. It works so very well to keep me interested and wondering what the next clue will be and how it fits into the entire plot. I have found the idea to be seriously addicting.
Happy Couple: I was quite happy to see this here because I have actually been thinking about it the last couple days. I'm writing a story that is set on a starship (basically a flying pawnshop) and I have been working on characters and the one I was having a hard time coming up with a personality for was the mechanic. (every starship needs a mechanic/engineer) Originally I wasn thinking a kind of grumpy know-it-all and did a few sketches but I just wasn't happy with how that kind of guy would fit in with the rest of the crew. Then I was watching Gilligan's Island (as I do fairly frequently) and saw the Howells and a little lightbulb flashed over my head and I thought 'what if it's a COUPLE!' I love the way the Howells are always doting over each other and perfectly happy to wander off into side conversations that have absolutely nothing to do with what everyone else is talking about. And then it occured to me that the truly happy, well-established couple was so rare in (modern) entertainment I could scarcely think of any. And after reading this that's definately the path I'm going to take.
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WonHitWonder In reply to chill13 [2014-01-22 01:39:59 +0000 UTC]
I'm glad you found this useful, this list was a blast to write!
Glad it's not just me that noticed that there were no happy, mature couples in modern fiction! I usually don't like romances because the goal isn't "have a happy relationship," it's "start a relationship." When couples feel real and are genuinely good together, I get waaaaaaaay more invested. There was a short TV show called Harper's Island and there was a couple that just had such a good relationship, it was adorable. Then one character was put in danger and I was like "HOLY SHIT, WE NEED TO FIND THEM OR THE ADORABLE ROMANCE IS OVER!!!"
And good luck with your story, I've never heard of a concept like that before. But that's a good thing! Lots of people on dA tend to write the same exact story as each other, over and over and over and over...
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chill13 In reply to WonHitWonder [2014-01-22 02:09:09 +0000 UTC]
I haven't seen that show. But the copule that stands out first in my mind is Rob and Lara from the Dick Van Dyke show. They loved each other and had a happy marriage and it was a mature relationship. They had their problems now and then, of course, but they were just a great couple. And that CERTAINLY didn't make them un-entertaining.
I've always liked the adventure and 'new worlds and new life' aspect of sci fi. New places and people and animal life that defy the imagination. And I've always loved 50's and 60's sitcoms for their great humor and fun characters. I've never seen anything that merged those things that I liked to my degree of satisfaction. I always wanted something spacey, funny enough to make the characters endearing, and adventurous enough to actually worry about them. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy was funny but so ridiculous that you were never really worried about anyone. Star Trek has great plots and was funny occasionally, but never funny enough. I'm hoping for a balance between the two.
I'm still in the brainstorming stage but here's a few concepts: chill13.deviantart.com/art/Sco… chill13.deviantart.com/art/Mul… chill13.deviantart.com/art/Hi-…
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WonHitWonder In reply to chill13 [2014-01-22 02:23:13 +0000 UTC]
Congrats on being someone who actually draws characters with character. Those were really cool!
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chill13 In reply to WonHitWonder [2014-01-22 02:41:11 +0000 UTC]
Wow! Thanks so much. Characters are my favorite things to draw.
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bokuSatchi [2014-01-19 01:10:05 +0000 UTC]
Thanks for sharing this guide. I enjoyed reading it. It gave me good points to think about when coming up with characters and stories for them. : )
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WonHitWonder In reply to bokuSatchi [2014-01-19 22:09:27 +0000 UTC]
Thank you, and I'm happy this helped!
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MonkeyNumber5 [2014-01-17 13:06:43 +0000 UTC]
I'm always nodding in approval when I'm reading your tutorials. I can't seem to stop!
I really like the other 'not-to-do' tutorials, because I recognize the situations and really learn a lot from them. Most of the time I'm checking if I didn't make any of the mistakes and become full of myself when that's the case.
But this is an other kind of tutorial... This kind is the one I didn't see before... What to do?
Read it of course!
I can understand that you thought you should 'give' more than 'take'... But you give us so much already!
So much information and the effort... Just to make these tutorials for us!
Normally people just read and complain to their selves about what they don't like, but you help writers think and write.
I genuinely think that people who write story's and have read your tutorials are improving.
I should stop now, before I make you blush
But really, thank you for your opinion and effort to write these tutorials!
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sumgie1 [2014-01-17 12:47:05 +0000 UTC]
A very fresh idea. As it seems, a lot of writing tutorials focus on the negative, on "don't do that". This one goes in the opposite direction. I also thought that it may be too long. But, intrigued, I finished it up in pretty much one sitting (with some disturbances, that is).
Now, let's go on to the tropes themselves. I kind of expected for them to be not so clear. For example, at least once, I've seen it written that one should not use cliches. Well, thanks, Mr. Helpful. When I looked over the ideas you've written, I think they are more or less specific. While one may question about the extent of focus, energy, effort, there were many tropes and examples that, in my view, made it more or less clear what you mean.
I decided that, after I read this, I would see what tropes here I myself like.
- I suppose, in general, I'm not that interested in surroundings - more in the mood, impressions, feelings, characters. And when writing, I just give a few lines to set the mood, give the general impression or as more of a metaphor. I guess that's what I expect from others, too.
- I think it's a good idea to use smell. People experience life through many senses and using more than just sight and hearing should make it all feel more alive (likely could get overdone, though...).
- Absent characters can be an interesting and unexpected change of pace.
- No clear villain (and also, no clear hero) is also an interesting trope. I imagine no person does bad (or good) just because. So more exposed characters could be interesting in how it would be unexpected, hard to side, provocative and how different people would like different characters.
- When it comes to romance, I guess what I most like is when the male feels like me and the female - like someone I (would) like. And then it doesn't matter what type of relationship they have: I either can relate to it or vicariously enjoy it.
- I don't believe in Karma. I think there is another order to life but something like karma gets relatively well applied in close social situations. That is probably why I would more often enjoy seeing life not meeting people's expectations but also people fighting back if a person is harassing them.
- Sets and overarching goals are cool. They sure give something to look forward in the story. I like when I feel that a long story is going somewhere.
- Don't know what to say about other tropes. Because they're not that clear and/or depends on the context for me.
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WonHitWonder In reply to sumgie1 [2014-01-22 01:46:16 +0000 UTC]
I'm glad you liked it. Lots of these are subjective and it's cool to hear which ones you prefer. I remember reading once that many literary critics struggle with writing a good book because they know what not to do, but don't know what to do so it ends up just being 'meh.'
And seriously, I appreciate such a long comment! Thanks for the reply, I'm always curious about what your take is because you sometimes have different feelings on writing than I do.
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chinoise56 [2014-01-17 02:23:41 +0000 UTC]
Thanks
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Jellyfish-Pie [2014-01-16 19:54:14 +0000 UTC]
I have to start by saying that I'm a very new to writing. I love creating (I mean, who doesn't), but I hate writing. I'm more of a visual artist, and while I've done really well on school essays, I've never had the guts to jump into writing on my own.
Recently I've been building myself up to start creating a piece of literature, thinking of plots and writing out small bits of the story as they come to mind. I've never delved so much into creative writing so it's a real learning process.
Reading your tutorials, especially this one, has really inspired me. They're are to fun and easy to follow. As I read them, I second guess my work that's already been made and become inspired to add more! So thank you for all the hard work and effort you put into your tutorials!
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WonHitWonder In reply to Jellyfish-Pie [2014-01-16 21:51:05 +0000 UTC]
Firstly, congrats on having the guts to try writing out! I know a lot of people who say they want to write, but never actually do anything, so you're already ahead of a lot of people
And I'm really glad you're enjoying these tutorials! I have a great time making them, and I'm really happy to hear that they're helping you out.
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Jellyfish-Pie In reply to WonHitWonder [2014-01-17 00:38:19 +0000 UTC]
Thank you! I never really thought about that. I guess it's the same with people who say, "I wish I could draw". I tell them they just need to try it out and practice. I never really realized how much that applies to writing as well.
I look forward to whatever you do next!
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PhantomKatie [2014-01-16 17:50:41 +0000 UTC]
I would have to say, I laughed harder at this tutorial than any of your other ones, I love it!
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WonHitWonder In reply to PhantomKatie [2014-01-16 18:56:31 +0000 UTC]
Ah, the elusive Katie graces me with her dA presence. I bow to you, as your humble servant
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PhantomKatie In reply to WonHitWonder [2014-01-16 19:27:47 +0000 UTC]
Hey, I'm not elusive! And I'm glad you're finally recognizing my status and treating me with the respect I deserve, wench!
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WonHitWonder In reply to PhantomKatie [2014-01-16 19:29:20 +0000 UTC]
Katie reigns supreme. Katie knows all. Katie should make me a sandwich please.
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PhantomKatie In reply to WonHitWonder [2014-01-16 19:33:29 +0000 UTC]
But you're so far away, my arms don't reach that far
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WonHitWonder In reply to PhantomKatie [2014-01-16 19:39:08 +0000 UTC]
Damn. Another time then. The sandwich shall have roast beef and cheese, but no mayo. God help you if you put mayo on it.
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PhantomKatie In reply to WonHitWonder [2014-01-16 19:47:32 +0000 UTC]
But I only know how to make veggie sandwiches!!!
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Celvas [2014-01-16 13:22:57 +0000 UTC]
Alright, commenting as I read. Meaning I haven't read past the disclaimer so far. Why do you put the disclaimer up there, anyway? When people feel offended they'll tell you, with or without disclaimer. Might as well save the space in the preview for the actual introduction of your tutorial. My tuppence worth.
You should have topped the number of tropes. You would have given us one free trope! Now you just evened out the odds.
Energy
Aw, stop it, you. Telling people to model their characters a little bit more after me. Zaz zo zweed. (Just let me; there's no win here.) Anyhow! I love it when both of those factors come together - the introvert and the extrovert. Not in one character, mind you. My favourite is in two, but relationships like that come in many flavors. The extrovert pushing the introvert, either gently or with great force, because they either want to help them, think they are helping them, or merely enjoy watching them panic through a situation they aren't prepared for. It can be a pupil/mentor relationship, even between same-age friends. Either one can end up sucking the other one in. There is so much one can put into this, happiness or maliciousness or anything inbetween. I could tell you some examples, but I won't bore you with this. What I often see on deviantART is so called stories that are basically only depressive thoughts without action (I am a deer in front of a speeding cars bright lights!). I know that people need to get their stuff out, but I'm glad I didn't have internet when my life-sucks-for-the-heck-of-it phase came knocking (yeah, the deer quote is one of mine). Once it's on the internet, it stays on the internet. Well, that's it for this helping of give.
Weather
Just want to say, the behavior you are describing is called "exposition". While vital to a script, it is more often than not the word used as a stand-in for "being bored to fu**", apologies for language, I'll leave a buck in the swear jar. Naturally, some exposition will be of essence, but gosh go some people out of their way to write everything down to the last character. It is my personal opinion that there should be laws (plural) against exposition through dialogue.
Attention to Setting
I like this one. To be aware of location and positioning. Know where your characters are and where they are at where they are (such eloquence). I like to keep it all in my head, which works fine, but putting it down on paper as a reference is something that should not be shrugged off. It happens often enough that people kind of forget the setting of their scene and accidentally pull nonsense. Rowling did this a lot in the later Harry Potter books; as much that I wonder if there was no one willing to proof-read.
Varied Locations
No top off the head thoughts. Shucks.
Area-wide phenomena
Oh, this one you gotta be careful with. It's a Spider Crunch waiting to happen. Spider Crunch is when you write something into your story that has no significance and then comes around to steal the spot light. Like a spider crawling over your face. Naturally, you'll want to be as specific about a non-story-related event as possible as to not turn it into a hook by the rule of ominous, a question readers need answered. This is not only world-building, it's also a style decision and a device, and most of all: it will have an effect on the tone of the story.
Neighbors
When I was a kid our neighbors were suing the hell out of us because our shed stood 7mm on their ground. They were also poisoning our trees and plants and animals, sabotaging our cars and motorcycles... it got so bad that we had to install a surveillance system. Neighbor didn't know that, and I think this is the weirdest thing I ever saw in life: in the deep of the night that neighbor guy walked over to us, into the carport, and poured lighter fluid into selective gas cans. The weird part? He was wearing a devil costume. A head-to-toe devil costume. And we had it all on tape.
Unique descriptions
Uh! You said a negative thing about purple prose. You said it's always bad. While not a fan of it myself, sometimes a purple patch is good for a type of story-telling.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Well, uhm... I'll stop at this point because it's getting really lengthy. Read it all though and those are good tips. Anything to say about gesticulation and how to use it in text and inbetween dialogue?
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WonHitWonder In reply to Celvas [2014-01-16 16:24:52 +0000 UTC]
Thanks for writing such a novel of a comment!
I agree with you on avoiding exposition through dialogue, it just comes out sounding silly a lot of the times. There's usually no reason for the characters to be explaining what they already know with each other...
And I agree with your point on the area-wide phenomena, it would probably be more effective the longer the story is and with very little attention given to it. It'd be way too much in most short stories or even novels.
I apologize for the negative words towards purple prose I thought purple prose was a derogatory term for when it went on too long and was superfluous to the story. Lesson learned, I guess.
I like gesticulation. The one thing that always stuck out to me from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest was the description of Harding's hands moving around like white birds as he spoke. It was one line, but it stuck with me for a long time. I like gestures that speak a lot to the character's personality or how they're feeling, but it can get a bit silly if it's used after every line of dialogue. To me, I always tell myself that I have one short line to make a gesture work, and if it starts to drag the flow I delete it and try to get the information in another way.
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Celvas In reply to WonHitWonder [2014-01-16 16:41:48 +0000 UTC]
It is a derogatory term. Coined by Horace even before the birth of Christ. Well, pretty much "coined"; he didn't call it purple prose, exactly. He likened overly flowery descriptions to a painter who is able to draw a beautiful tree (of some kind, I shamefully forgot), but then again, would he draw that tree in when painting a sailor into a wrecked ship just because he was very apt at it? But it's like rich food; enjoyable in moderation. Lots of moderation. Myself, I'm not for purple prose either, but mainly because I like stories with few adjectives better than stories with a lot of adjectives, and even worse, flowery adjectives. But in general, it can have its uses.
Hm. Interesting thought. To describe it in one line and the reader fits it in themselves. This way, you won't have to write it over again. See, I have a character that depends strongly on gesticulation, especially when they're making a point, and I must admit I don't quite know how to make that work. The character is not fidgety and mostly uses gesticulations in order to punctuate what they say, or to startle people, or to make themselves appear even more threatening. Everything, really. Gotta find a way for the reader to fill it in without me having to tell them all the time, because I totally see that I can't do that.
Oh, and of course. You're welcome. I was going to comment on every point, but... yeah, long. I like that you are telling people about the good stuff. It usually already tells us what to avoid, no?
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WonHitWonder In reply to Celvas [2014-01-16 19:09:20 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, I figured I'd try to help people make good stories as well as helping them avoid making bad ones. A good story and a not-bad story are very different animals.
And for that character that gestures a lot, you might be able to get away with occasional descriptions commenting on the way they move their hands. Like from your description, I'm picturing how an illusionist moves his hands around to keep people's attention and all the little flourishes he adds to "punctuate" his illusions. If I'm accurate, of course. But something like that could get the reader to expect that it will happen whenever he talks, and an occasional action after a line of dialogue reminding them of it could be enough to trick them into picturing the gestures without you having to tell them to. Just a suggestion though.
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KarynRH [2014-01-16 12:27:27 +0000 UTC]
I almost never use the sense of smell in my writing and hadn't realized it until I read this. You're right, it can add quite a bit to a scene or a story when used correctly!
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WonHitWonder In reply to KarynRH [2014-01-16 16:10:47 +0000 UTC]
Glad to have given you a new idea! I love seeing smell used, it really draws me into a world and makes me believe in it. It's also great for mood!
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Rovanna [2014-01-16 05:34:34 +0000 UTC]
These are really good tips! I especially like the setting ones, I always forget about weather.
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