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XiangYuu — MONSTER
Published: 2016-09-13 12:23:03 +0000 UTC; Views: 334; Favourites: 49; Downloads: 5
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Yes,let's play this AGAIN
Check other faces on my pixiv
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Comments: 20
reminds me of Satonaka Chie from Persona 4. planned to draw her or coincidence?
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Never played any Persona games before...so it's a concidence
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Woah dude this is amazing
EDIT : This is now my computer background :')
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n,MWSDzkc,ms zdxmn, dksznxmxncsnmcmcmc
THANK YOU!!!!
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Of course I'm triggered! You're calling Chara a villain!
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How is acknowledging that Chara does this at the end of genocide 'calling Chara a villain'? I mean, it's a thing. At the end of genocide, Chara does indeed manifest her body and does indeed destroy the entire universe, whether you want it or not.
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And WHY does she do that? Who wanted genocide?
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Why does it matter? Chara's not an automaton (If you ignore the whole 'fictional character' thing). She can make her own choices and her own decisions. There was no mind control. Nobody forced her to kill Sans and nobody forced her to destroy the universe.
If we're going to hold Frisk/The Player accountable for killing the ~105 people in genocide, we should hold Chara accountable for killing literally everyone else, just to urge The Player to take her to other games to grind through.
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Chara made those choices BECAUSE of us. Have you heard of the Narrator theory? If you think Chara is supposed to represent RPG grinding thn you're in for a big surprise.
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"Oh, I didn't want to destroy the universe! The big bad player FORCED me to do it!" <- Sound familiar to you at all? We made the choice to kill everyone in the underground, even blind players who don't know what's going to happen? Well, Chara made the choice to destroy the universe. She was smiling when she did it and does it of her own free will. She wanted to do it, as opposed to most genocide players who go through the run 'oh god I hate this I'm awful make it stop'. Consequences are consequences. If the player isn't above them, neither is Chara. It's only fair.
"Have you heard of the Narrator theory? If you think Chara is supposed to represent RPG grinding thn you're in for a big surprise." If you think these two are mutually exclusive, you are in for a big surprise.
I'm well aware of the Narrator Chara theory. And it doesn't change anything. Chara, post-genocide, is an entity strong enough to 1-shot the universe and then literally put it back together. You can sell your soul to her. Does any of that sound like something a run of the mill dead human can do? Chara outright says that she represents, or has been made to represent, or always has and only thanks to you realizes she represents, the feeling you get whenever a number, a stat, increases. And she says that at the end of a run designed to show you the horrors of grinding.
Unless you want to go so far out on a limb and say Chara's lying, even though her feats immediately after suggest otherwise, go right ahead. But Chara being the incarnation of powerleveling after genocide concludes? It's as Canon as Sans being Papyrus's brother: unless you assume people are lying, it's there.
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Heh... Lemme guess, you're one of those guys, aren't you?
If you give Superman red kryptonite, does that make him evil by default?
Listen, prosecutor Edgeworth. The only reason why Chara said that was because you corrupted them. The LV (or the kill count) you gather goes to Chara's stats. And LV is a way to measure the capacity to hurt. The more you kill, the more you convince the child that violence is the reason they were woken up for.
However, thanks to the dog food bag, we know which path Chara prefers. They say "half-full" in pacifist only, while "half-empty" in other routes.
Then there's the 2nd Asgore Spare evidence, the silent save point evidence and more.
By the way, Chara only made the choice because they were convinced that this is what you were going for. What did you expect from a genocide route? To simply come clean after what you caused? And after they realized you didnt do it for a greater purpose than fun/curiosity, they erase the world so that you won't toy with it any longer.
Oh, and the selling soul thing? They only offer that trade after you beg for it yourself. But of course there should be a catch.
If they can't stop you from toying with the world because of your "perverted sentimentality", they'll just ruin your pacifist ending instead.
And that is what a genocider deserves.
And the ones who only want the true pacifist? Chara becomes their key to saving the world.
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Heh... Lemme guess, you're one of those guys, aren't you? "This person disagrees with me. Surely they must be one of those uneducated saps who just aren't on my level of knowledge." Come on, how conceited can you get?
"If you give Superman red kryptonite, does that make him evil by default?" Default? Who cares about default?
"The only reason why Chara said that was because you corrupted them." So what? All that does is give Chara an intricate motive. Murder is murder.
"he LV (or the kill count) you gather goes to Chara's stats." Incorrect. It's our/Frisk's stats. Chara outright says 'YOU gained EXP', 'YOUR Love increased'. To say that 'oh no, that LV is actually Chara's' is entirely baseless assumption.
"The more you kill, the more you convince the child that violence is the reason they were woken up for." It's more than that. "Power." Not just violence, power. When Chara lists your stats, she also lists HP, ATK, DEF, and Gold, not just EXP and LV. That's not just what she's woken up for, it's what she's BECOME. Or are you conveniently going to ignore "Every time a number increases, that feeling, that's me." Maybe Chara doesn't start that way. I don't think she does. But by the time this artist's piece happens? That's what Chara's become. Things change.
"However, thanks to the dog food bag, we know which path Chara prefers. They say "half-full" in pacifist only, while "half-empty" in other routes." SO WHAT?! This entire exchange happened because you, for some godforsaken reason, decided a piece of art showing Chara about to destroy the universe is 'wrongly portraying her as a villain' even though it's very much a thing that happens in Undertale, and very much a thing people can draw!
"Then there's the 2nd Asgore Spare evidence, the silent save point evidence and more." NONE OF THIS IS RELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION FFS! You keep trying to convince me Chara's some perfect angel and the player is the cause of genocide. Guess what? While I disagree with the 'perfect angel' thing (Chara was going to murder those humans on the surface even before they attacked Asriel), I KNOW ABOUT ALL THIS! And it's not what I'm talking about.
All I am saying, is that while Chara doesn't start out evil, she sure as hell becomes evil once Genocide ends. Listen to yourself! You are trying to justify Chara destroying the entire universe! The worst the player does is kill, what, a hundred people? Chara's crimes eclipse the player's once genocide ends. "Cool motive, still murder."
"By the way, Chara only made the choice because they were convinced that this is what you were going for." Still conveniently forgetting parts of the speech, hmm? "Now we have reached the absolute. Let us erase this pointless world and move on to the next." And then Chara destroys Undertale, and seems surprised when you want to go back. Implying those 'other worlds' are other games to grind through, since you've already reached the max level for Undertale.
"What did you expect from a genocide route? To simply come clean after what you caused?" Gee, it's almost like you can do this for every other game in existence.
"And after they realized you didnt do it for a greater purpose than fun/curiosity, they erase the world so that you won't toy with it any longer." This is just flat-out wrong. Chara destroys the universe no matter WHAT your motives are. Agree with her? Destroys the universe. Want to turn back? Destroys the universe. Nothing changes! At no point in Chara's speech is there ANYTHING about fun and curiosity. N-O-T-H-I-N-G! If we go by what Chara says, she destroys the universe to urge you to play another game so you can grind through that one too. "We'll be together forever, won't we?" says the person who's, by then, become the literal embodiment of grinding.
Oh, and the selling soul thing? They only offer that trade after you beg for it yourself. But of course there should be a catch. So?
If they can't stop you from toying with the world because of your "perverted sentimentality", they'll just ruin your pacifist ending instead. Chara does that no matter how many genocide runs you do. Even if you do one, out of curiosity, hating yourself the entire way, with the only condolence being that you think you can make everything right afterward, and then immediately do a guilt-pacifist afterward and keep it that way... she still goes and murders people.
I don't even understand what you're trying to say, or what point you're trying to make! Your points are all over the place. Chara, by the time genocide ends, is evil. There's just no way around this. You are somehow trying to make omnicide (The destruction of the entire universe) and serial murder (Killing Frisk's friends in Soulless Pacifist for the things someone else did) seem justifiable.
What's your aim?! What in the world are you trying to convince me of?!
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I'm not trying to make it look like Chara is an angel.
Though, funny you brought something up.
Tho, I ask why are YOU interfering with my conversation with the artist? Have I insulted them? No. Then why should you care? Why bother write an essay long reply when I clearly wasnt talking to you.
Don't give me the crap about people regretting genocide.
Chara didn't want genocide until you raped their mind to it and now you're calling them evil rather than admit the only truly evil one is you.
And before you make another pointless essay, I do blame Chara for the death of Asriel and the huge consequences that happened after they both died. But I will not have them be called a senseless murderer. Take it from the pacifist side and you see none of it saying they're that.
Now do me a favor and stop filling my notifications. I don't know you and neither do you know me. If you disagree with me, keep it to yourself. Artworks are however meant to be commented on.
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"Artworks are however meant to be commented on." So are comments. Public spaces, you know. With that said, I'll just leave you with this and be done:
A piece of artwork showcasing Chara about to destroy the universe at the end of genocide is hardly 'saying they're the villain'. It's just a scene from the game.
"Chara didn't want genocide until you raped their mind to it and now you're calling them evil rather than admit the only truly evil one is you." You are! You really are trying to justify omnicide! People can change. People can start good or neutral and become evil. What they were 'before' doesn't matter. For example, if a kid gets kidnapped by murderers, and watches them kill people, over and over and grows up thinking it's what's normal, then grows up, goes out and kills someone, there isn't a jury in the world that will go 'oh but they were made that way'. The reasons Chara turns evil at the end of genocide aren't important. All that matter is that if you get there, she becomes a whole lot more evil than the player ever was, and that is just canon.
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You know what's a whole lot more evil? Deciding to do genocide over and over again. There's already evidence where Chara doesn't agree with you in that sense. So no, YOU are more evil than Chara. What did you even want from genocide if you didnt want to kill everything? I am not justifying omnicide. But I am not justifying your attempt to avoid the fact you caused everything to get destroyed. Asriel gets redeemed even though he made countless genocides. And you twisted Chara into doing it. Dont you dare flee from your sins. Chara could have stayed the secret hero in Pacifist route.
Nevertheless, aboit this artwork. Where does it say that the artist doesnt think Chara has always beem evil? Give me proof the artist supports the narratpr theory.
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"You know what's a whole lot more evil? Deciding to do genocide over and over again." So... killing 100 people over and over is worse than killing billion+ people over and over? Hey you know, it's like the old saying. Kill one man, you're a murder. Kill a million, a conquerer, kill them all, a god.
"There's already evidence where Chara doesn't agree with you in that sense." Yes, the evidence being she doesn't want you to keep grinding out Undertale specifically because she's bored of that game's genocide route. She wants to go to new games.
"What did you even want from genocide if you didnt want to kill everything?" Completionism. Even then I didn't do it myself: I got called out by Flowey when he broke the 5th wall.
"I am not justifying omnicide." Coulda fooled me, with the way you try to keep saying it's the player that destroys the universe when it's VERY clearly Chara pulling the trigger.
"But I am not justifying your attempt to avoid the fact you caused everything to get destroyed." Players who cause genocide don't actually do it though! There's no mind control. Despite what you said, there's no mind-rape either. Most people aren't even aware of Chara's purpose in genocide! If you don't check everything, you won't even be aware of Chara at all! Chara's the one who destroys everything. Chara's the one who pulls the trigger. Chara's the one who pulls you forward even when you start to doubt your decision. Chara's the person who, after watching a few dozen people die - people who can be reset back into life - looks at the universe and says, "It'll have to go." YOU stop trying to blame people for something they didn't do. Would Chara have destroyed the universe without genocide? No. But NOTHING the player does forces Chara to do anything. She makes the decision entirely of her own free will, and you're still trying to excuse it. Refer back to my analogy with the kid raised by murderers. Why Chara does it changes nothing. She's the one who destroys the universe, and that's all that matters. We unwittingly give her the means by ascending her, and then she willingly does it.
"Asriel gets redeemed even though he made countless genocides." Hmm, did he though? If you kill everyone, and then reset them back into life, did they ever really die? When Chara destroys the universe, and recreates it, she's not rewinding things. She's literally recreating a carbon copy of the universe: "Should you choose to recreate this world once more," she says. Nothing about resets. Those people you and her kill stay dead, because of her actions.
"Give me proof the artist supports the narratpr theory." While on one hand there isn't, on the other hand, this seems to be their only artwork related to Chara. One data point is NOTHING to draw conclusions from.
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Now I'm really tired wasting my time with you. My comments regarding the artwork has nothig to do with you, and yet you dare butt in in other people's conversation.
determinators.tumblr.com/post/…
This post proves my point more than enough. If you don't get what I'm saying then you shouldn't be discussing Chara at all, considering you continuously avoid the fact you were the one to trigger Chara into turning out like this.
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