HOME | DD
brensey β Sly 3 Epilogue: 'Time to Talk' (2 of 3)
Published: 2014-04-16 08:31:51 +0000 UTC; Views: 3162; Favourites: 26; Downloads: 0
Redirect to original
Description
Here are the links to the other pages:Link to page 1
page 2 [you are here]
Link to page 3
Special thanks to sonicsora and sariels-hope for helping with ideas and artistic inspiration. This comic was REALLY hard to do because I know drama isn't my strong suit. But these two muses made it a bit easier.
ARTIST'S RAMBLINGS:
----Here's another reason why Sanzaru's explanation for how the amnesia thing played out bothered me: It implied that Carmelita wasn't entirely sure he was lying about it. She kinda knew deep down inside that he was playing her. But she went with it and NEVER called him out because she was just so desperate for Sly's love that she was willing to play the fool for him.
Not only does that make Carmelita look pathetic and desperate. It comes with some....unfortunate implications.
a) if you assume that Carmelita BELIEVED the amnesia lie, than that makes her look like an evil person. Think about it: she sees Sly get injured in a cave. He says he can't remember his own name. And she proceeds to LIE TO HIM ABOUT HIS ENTIRE IDENTITY and take him home with her! And she knows that doing this will effectively isolate him from his friends and his "brothers" (who are running around that island frantically searching for him)! There is nothing ~*romantic*~ about this scenario! It's just creepy!
b) if you assume that Carmelita always knew he was lying but just let him believe she was stupid; than that makes her look pathetic and Sly look like an ass. A relationship can't work if the couple can't respect and trust each other and have to build a romance on a lie.
Related content
Comments: 16
π: 1 β©: 0
π: 0 β©: 1
Honestly, even before Sly 4 happened, I was more concerned by the "how did Sly not go to jail after Sly 3 was over!?" plot hole than whether or not he hooked up with Carmelita. I guess I watched too much Law&Order as a teenager. XD
This plot hole didn't bug me that much when I played the third game for the first time because Sucker Punch left Sly and Carmelita's situation just vague enough for the audience to fill in the blanks. So I just assumed that the lie crumbled right away and Carmelita got Sly a probation deal that allowed him to serve some sort of punishment without having to go behind bars.
However, now that Sly 4's canon explicitly SAYS that Sly got away with EVERYTHING simply by faking a brain injury (and that he kept lying to Carmelita the whole time)....it opens up WAY more questions and plot holes.
π: 1 β©: 1
Yeah, there's a lot of legal mess wrapped up in what Sly does. I mean, they try to play up that being a thief who only steals from thieves (except how he doesn't, but that's what they're going for) then that makes him a good guy! Buy the thing is that that money or artifact or whatever was taken from another source, someone most likely completely innocent. Taking something from a thief doesn't automatically remove it's taint as "stolen." If anything it makes it worse, because if the police took down the crook the true owners may have a chance of getting their property back. But when Sly (and his family) took it, it then just got thrown in a vault. Left to collect dust. =\
Yeeeeeaaaaahhhhhh. SO MANY PROBLEMS! That opening cutscene created so many plotholes and instead of fixing them or answering questions it just continued to make more plotholes and ruin characters. It may have been better if they had left well enough alone =__= or, you know, put in actual effort to continuity.
π: 0 β©: 1
I mean, they try to play up that being a thief who only steals from thieves (except how he doesn't, but that's what they're going for) then that makes him a good guy! Buy the thing is that that money or artifact or whatever was taken from another source, someone most likely completely innocent. Taking something from a thief doesn't automatically remove it's taint as "stolen." If anything it makes it worse, because if the police took down the crook the true owners may have a chance of getting their property back.
Have you ever read the Sly Cooper comic books that Sucker Punch released to bridge the gap between the second game and the third? There is a scene in the second book where Carmelita calls Sly out on his "Honorable Thief Code" being complete bullshit. She gets in his face and tells him that he's no better than the people he steals from because those stolen goods were taken from innocent people. That scene was the thing that cemented Carmelita in my mind as one of the coolest female character EVER. Here's a scan of the scene .
Those comics did an AMAZING job at fleshing out Carmelita. So pretty much all my fanworks and opinions about her character stem from the comic.
π: 0 β©: 1
Yeah I have, but I didn't remember this scene where she called him out on his bullshit XD Then again it's bee a few years since I last read them. I wanted to purchase them years ago when I first got my credit cards, but Sucker Punch's store doesn't ship to Canada (AAAARGH) And I'm wary of ebay, so I just dealt with the online scans. And... actually Sucker Punch released .zip files of the comics on their website at one point. That's where I got my files from (now where those files went is another matter entirely. I have too many computers and harddrives >__> )
I love Comic!Carmelita. It gave you lots of insight into her character, both in her past and present form. ^^
π: 0 β©: 2
I LOVE that scene because it completely refutes the premise that Carmelita is just a bitchy tsundere who obsesses over Sly because she secretly wants to bang him. Turns out, she's obsessively angry at him because she (initially) thinks he's just a smug, smarmy, hypocritical douchebag! And the way he tries to elevate himself above "common" crooks just pisses her off!
And, as much as I love Sly, I can't deny that Carmelita is RIGHT. His family's honor code IS bullshit! Which is why I just can't stomach the idea of Carmelita even CONSIDERING taking Sly back after he relapses and gleefully steals something again.
π: 0 β©: 1
:claps: Agreed. In the first game especially she was rarely ever 'kind' to Sly. And when she was it was either out of gratitude for saving her life (despite the fact that it was Bentley who saved the both of them) and keeping her word after the dust settled. It was very much one-sided in that he had a crush on her and she was wholly committed to her job. It's only in the second and third games where they actually mutually get to know each other, and Carmelita learns that the law isn't infallible that the feelings become mutual. A big part of Sly's revelation in the third game was realizing how much he was - in his own words - a JERK to Carmelita.
Something that struck me about TiT was that there was one Ancestor who despite canonically being a thief in previous games wasn't a thief in TiT: Galleth. He wasn't a thief, like... at all. He was a Knight and then later a performer. I think in trying to play up him being a KNIGHT they completely forgot that he was also supposed to be a thief. He never mentioned any of his escapades and when he took on the Black Knight it was because he was following his own code of chivallry. No mention of taking what the Knight had, just dismantling a Tyrant. More bad writing, I guess...
π: 0 β©: 1
That's a good point about Galleth. They also did the same thing with Rioichi Cooper. Rioichi couldn't just be a cool ninja thief from ye olde Japan. He had to be the freakin' INVENTOR OF SUSHI (and garish sushi restaurants)! Because, apparently, letting him be a plain old ninja-thief is just too boring.
π: 0 β©: 1
Yeaaaaaah, I really frickin hated that they did that. It pushed Rioichi from being "the Coolest Cooper" to being "omigawd you stereotypical Mary Sue =___= ." I still like the Rioichi of the original Trilogy, he was justaΒ cool guy. TiT Rioichi.... he annoyed me every time he opened his mouth =__=
π: 0 β©: 0
I scanned my Sly books for a friend who just recently got into the franchise. I'll put them up on Tumblr or something so you can copy/paste them. I'll let you know when I get them up there!
π: 0 β©: 1
Nah, you don't have to ^^. They still have the first comic up on their website and the second is easy enough to find still.
π: 0 β©: 0
In regards to talking point a: I love Sly 3, but man... It's kinda clear the ending wasn't super clearly thought out in contrast to everything else. I get they wanted to close out the series, but it left some big plot holes you could drive a semi truck through. Oy.Β
I also adore this page since, dang- wow- Sly is actually listening to Carmelita's side for once. It's just really nice to see.Β
π: 1 β©: 1
Talking point A was the main reason I always assumed that Carmelita NEVER believed the amnesia lie for one second (and only went along in the beginning because she was emotionally overwhelmed by the romance of Sly doing something like that for her). Because lying to someone with traumatic brain injury about who they are to initiate a romance is kinda....rapey (seriously, imagine the genders swapped and the Talking Point A scenario becomes WAY more squicky) >_<Β
I'm guessing Sucker Punch wanted to leave things vague just in case another game was made in the future (but still wanted the story to have closure in case Sly 3 was the end of the franchise). And that's why certain things were left open that probably shouldn't have been.
π: 0 β©: 1
Agreed- I always assumed she just went along with that crap since HEY SLY IS ALIVE, THANK GOD was running through her head/being touched by the gesture. Carmelita would be REALLY out of character if she kept just.. living that lie without resolving the issue. She's not exactly someone who shy's away from a problem. Much less just lives with something this problematic.Β
Sounds about right to me. They maybe wanted to try later down the line without promising another game or something. Either way, I'll park my non existent semi truck in the plot holes the end game creates.Β
π: 0 β©: 1
Also, even if Carmelita WANTED to hide a brain-damaged Sly in her apartment, she couldn't because something like that would eventually bite her in the ass. Her whole life once fell apart just because Neyla passed around a picture of her and Sly dancing at a party. She'd probably be locked up for life if she tried to keep Sly as a secret boyfriend/pet and someone found out and told on her.
I don't see the ending of Sly 3 as a "plothole" so much as "intentional vagueness".
IMO, the vagueness actually worked pretty well in Sly 3. By not making it clear whether or not Carmelita bought the lie (and for how long), players who thought the amnesia twist was stupid can just assume that Sly&Carmlita talked it out right after getting off that island. And the people who actually thought that nonsense was romantic can just swoon at it.
And I also liked that Penelope&Bentley's relationship was a bit vague, too. The game doesn't make it clear if they're casually dating (and living apart), engaged, or just living in sin. So the people who weren't fans of that relationship could draw their own conclusions, too.
π: 0 β©: 0