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C-Puff — Blood and Water
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Published: 2010-02-10 08:49:54 +0000 UTC; Views: 1313; Favourites: 35; Downloads: 7
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It really bothers me when fans bring up the "blood relation" issue in a T-cest war. Honestly... how would that change anything? They are the people they are. Mikey is Mikey, Donny is Don, Leo is Leo and Raph is Raph. That doesn't CHANGE when you throw DNA into the mix. I don't like it when that's used as the "deciding factor" when it has 0 to do with the character's emotions >___<I SHOULD BE SLEEPING sghdhsdaj!!! but I was annoyed by something I saw online and drew this IN TEN MINUTES!
just to make my point.Hell knows why Casey felt the need to bring it up.
This is BOTH did you get that? BOTH FOR and against T-cest (depending on how you look at it).
NOW I NEED TO GET TO SLEEP BECAUSE I'LL HATE MYSELF TOMORROW!!
love each other dudes.. ..in.. .whatever way you prefer XD;;
Will scrap later.
NO FLAME WARS I IMPLORE YOU HO GAWDS!!
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Comments: 40
Funny, I'd sugest DNA testing for the sake of knowing what's the deal with the Turtles, it never occured to me to prove blood relations
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You know, they're mutant turtles, one might want to know what are they made of
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When I was five my older cousins got together and each of them baught me a different TMNT action figure(for my b-day). The cards that came with the guys said the usual stats(Height, fav topping, weapon, etc) but also where they supposedly came from. For instance, Raph supposedly came from a pet shop in New Hampshire (my kindergardener heart skipped a beat, my fav turtle from my home state?!) but his bros supposedly came from other places, example, Donny came from a turtle farm in Wyoming (I was like, Hauh? o_O?).
So I asked my folks how they could be brothers if that were the case.
Ma's response: Well, Splinter adopted them right?
Dad's response: They (beeped)-up on the cards, just ignore it.
Ma's answer meant Raph was still from NH but Dad's seemed to make more sense.
Such a dillemah for the five year old me, that it was! ^_^
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XDD I never really thought about it as a little kid. No-one ever pointed it out to me.
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This is constantly brought up in tcest wars, but it's weird how if you mention that the tmnt are probably not blood related, most people are okay with them just being gay. It's the incest stuff that bothers a lot of folks.
I don't give a crap either way, but I have been asked about them being brothers and why did I draw so and so frenching or whatever, and when I mention that, people usually back off.
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XDD I'm not one for T-cest, but if you told me "But they're probably not blood related" my response would sadly still be "It doesn't matter!! They grew up as brothers! It's creepy! 
That's on initial argument though. To be swung I need a really well written story to convince me it could work. XD with you it takes more than a "quick fix" to buy it. I need to see the characters handled properly before I buy it.
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That's true. Some people are creeped out by that, and some aren't.
I personally don't care either way with the TMNT, but if someone's satisfied with that response enough to get off of my ass about something I drew as a gift or favor for someone else, I'm good
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XDD good point *nods*
ALthough personally it's not something I go looking for I don't actually have anything morally against it or anything. I just have my preference. I have been convinced of its awesomeness once, maybe twice XDD but generally I prefer to keep things canon. That's just me though.
*always tries to be as all encompassing as possible* 8D;;
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I guess I'm kind of weird. Slash is not part of what I'm naturally inclined to write or draw myself, but I will still seek out and enjoy tcest art and fanfiction from good writers and artists.
While I don't care to focus on debating het vs. slash or the whole tcest uproar that's going on (to each their own, your fandom is what you make it), I think it's important to note that the TMNT are in an almost a prison-like isolation and have grown up very differently from anything we know or can understand. And situations like that do interesting things to people, mentally, so you never know what would happen. People like to explore that (look at VC Andrews with the Flowers In The Attic), and I think it's worth examining seriously.
So I tend to keep an open mind about things and I can convinced of almost anything as long as it's done well and the characters remain in character.
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Don's nonchalence really helps to drive the point home - the way he says it with a casual expression, and he doesn't ask "...why? What would that prove?" - he just asks "Why? What would that prove?" An ellipse, or in this case lacktherof, can make a lot of difference
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XDDD Don's nonchalance is really what made me want to do this (I've had this conversation in my head for a LONG time and although tiny pieces of it's changed that remained the same) It's a mirror of my own XD Even with T-cest not in the conversation, I really don't think focusing on DNA and blood is as important as focusing on who the characters are. 
Know your characters
that should be a stamp XDD
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Indeed it should
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I agree that I don't care if the boys are related or not. They're still hot no matter what! XD
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XDDD My argument is "does it really matter?" Really it's so NOT even an issue
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I agree that it's not the blood that matters the most; it's the relationship you have with the person, whether you are or aren't blood related. It really is who you ARE.
At the same time, I do dislike the response "What would that prove?" since it's almost a confirmation that the person KNOWS that they aren't of the blood. The test would prove whether or not there's kin by blood alone; it matters not, of course, as one needs not have similar blood to be close, but it does show just what it's testing: if the blood is similar.
Heh, I hope that my statement isn't too much on the matter; just a thought from within. Nice comic, though, and Don's response is one with which I agree.
Thank you for the swell share.
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XDD I don't think it needs to be seen as a confirmation. Yes, it's easy to swing the argument in that direction, but to counter it; it could also be seen that, if some-one was ADAMANT to prove they're related by blood, they believe it couldn't be any other way, they HAVE to be related by DNA and want a DNA test to PROVE to any naysayers that they are in fact blood related to some-one else, the argument stands with the same phrase: "What would that really prove?"
If you're related by blood, clear as day, black and white on paper... how does that really change anything?
Anyway XD glad you like all the same
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The one thing it changes is that the person actually knows. People really want clarity these days, that peace of mind where something unknown is finally brought to light. True, it may not be a confirmation, but it also could be seen as one as well; have to look at it from both sides.
^_^
But, yeah, just sharing another perspective, even if it is just "Devil's Advocate." When one can see multiple sides of something, they'll better understand (or at least know) that there are other grounds from which people originate.
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If a character really does feel they want to know for whatever reason, then yes, if just to rest their own minds they should try and find out. However I don't think this applies to the TMNT
XDD I love debating with myself over things even if I know how I already feel about them. As you say, it's the best way to better understand my own opinion on things while still understanding where the other person is coming from.
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Hahah, so true, Splinter is still their father, no matter what. And, yes, they will always be brothers; though I'm have a feeling that they each came from different parents, their being together makes them brothers, and Splinter is the father that cares for them and watches over them.
Weirdly, I don't think any would try to test with Splinter, as the similarities would be apparent beforehand: rat to turtle. Turtle to turtle, though, I could possibly see one of them maybe getting curious to exact bloodlines, like past histories and such.
Also, because of the mutagen that transformed them all, they ARE related in blood...or DNA, at least. They all share that one trait within them, so they really would hold similarities under testing.
^_^
I enjoy good debates as well, as I do it quite often with both myself and my friends. I am happy that we can share, my dear, and that we both understand and respect what the other is saying. Not too big on arguments, but a discussion is always fun.
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As to the art... Awesome as always. I like the poses and the expressions.
As to the issue...
Meh.
My take on the whole t-cest issue is... some people like to read/write/draw it. Some don't want to, and don't want to read it. (I happen to be in the later category) So... If you don't want to, ummmm DON'T READ. Duh.
My reasoning for not liking it is, yes, they've been raised as brothers. But it's more basic than that. It's because the cannon characters are quite adamantly hetero.
I wonder how people would feel if someone wrote Ellen Degeneres (sp?) into a hetero relationship? (granted she's a real person so it's not a totally fair comparison, but I can't think of any homosexual characters off the top of my head. I am WAY out of the loop when it comes to modern pop culture)
Ok so take any solidly homosexual character you can think of, and think about someone writing them into a hetero relationship. If it makes you go "squick", you understand where I'm coming from.
HOWEVER. You will NEVER see me engage in a flame war over the issue because... to me it's a non-issue. Some people like it. Some people don't. We all have our preferences. Deal with it like grown-ups, people, good grief. Why should my preference dictate what you write/draw/enjoy? And vice versa.
Sorry if I've riled anyone up.
*steps off soapbox*
Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary
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XDD;; these are pretty bad examples as rought sketches (once again) as I drew them while I was half asleep at midnight, hence the weird proportions in areas and rather stiffness in others. Still, it's pretty accurate to how a serious picture would look if I didn't control my lines the way I do. Normally I'm a lot more careful with how hard or light I press. This is if I drew all my lines with more or less the same pressure XDD and didn't worry about cleaning them up too much.
Personally, I'm not really one for T-cest. I have my reasons why but really I'm so mellow on the issue ot's not even worth arguing them. I just prefer not to slash them, the same way I don't want to slash any UY characters... or why I make Michiru and Haruka Hetero XDDD Nuuuuu~!! *Clings to them* Michiru and Haruka BELONG TOGETHER!!
*cough* anyway
My issue isn't even T-cest or anit-T-cest... my issue is bringing up blood as a way of arguement. Why?? Why bring that up at all?? XDD;; I'm actually a LOT more annoyed with bringing up the question of blood relation than I am T-cest! Even if it comes up in conversation without T-cest even being spoken about at all! I just don't think it's important enough to give any serious thought.
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I'm not sure how to ask this without sounding judgmental, and I'm honestly not meaning to be, I'm just curious.
If I understand what you're saying, that blood shouldn't matter, then...
In a hypothetical situation, if a brother falls for a sister, would that relationship be acceptable? Even though they are blood-relations?
Or how about siblings, separated at birth, reunited? Would they be able to carry on a relationship? For that matter, how about cousins?
I guess I'm curious as to what is or isn't acceptable, in what you're saying.
I'm sincerely curious. Feel free to answer privately or not at all if you're concerned about stirring drama. I totally understand. These are sensitive subjects. While I have strong opinions on the matter, I promise not to yell at you if yours are different from mine.
Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary
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XDD Well, I don't like T-cest because I think of the TMNT as brothers in the sense that that's how they grew up together and saw each other their whole lives. It's more mental than it is physical. If done properly you can skew this for slash purposes, but that requires good story-telling skills and a proper knowledge of the characters to understand how to do so without destroying their personalities. That's what I find perfectly acceptable within the fandom. I don't like it when pro-slashers say "Well it's never been said they're blood related so now we can slash them!". Simply slashing based on that fact alone doesn't work. You need a solid foundation to make the relationship work regardless of whether they ARE related or not. That's what I'm against XD;; just simply "Oh we're not related! NOW I start seeing you differently!" is too easy. You don't just change like that... you've built up a mental image of a person in your mind your entire life. You don't just change that with a drop of a hat.
Blood has no swing in it
...but that's all fandom stuff XDDD It's not real. In real life I'm not for incest. I find the concept creepy from a mentality stand-point, and there are repercussions if you're a hetero couple regarding biology and children and things. There are probably cultures in the world that WANT incest in certain families or something and no offense to them at all. But just my personal view point It's not something I'd tar and feather them for... but I just find it "not right". I could give several reasons such as people need to come from different backgrounds to better connect with each other and the whole irresponsible towards possible children thing but really you could counter any of these arguments XDD the sad thing is the bottom line for me as far as real life goes is: "I find it creepy and it's not for me .___." XD;; I'm afraid I don't have much more of an argument than that.
However, my ability to separate fact from fiction is pretty good (I hope) so although this DOES play a part in my view on T-Cest I can bend my own perceptions on the matter and see it from a different point of view if represented properly. But I have other reasons for disliking T-cest which have nothing to do with Incest at all, or yaoi or anything of the like XD;; but that's a whole different story ENTIRELY and is purely my own opinion that people don't need to agree with
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OOOK... Sorry I was worried for a moment, but that makes perfect sense.
Yeah, I think we agree, actually. ANY "slash" or relationship needs to be well written to be believable, that applies to any relationships, but especially so in any type of romance.
And I agree, there's a "squick" factor for some of us, that means we'll never like t-cest or slash no matter how well written.
Ok anyway.
*off to read more Usagi*
Rejoicing in the day,
-Mary
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I liked this especially due to how impartial it is 
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XD *nods* this comic could work even if I didn't even mention T-cest. the blood relation thing is such a non-issue in a family like the TMNT's I really don't understand why any-one would put any real value in DNA.
As for it's relationship on T-cest, even if they WERE blood related it still wouldn't matter. if you're slashing two of them... they're both boys! XDDD they're not gonna have inbred children together! (unless you go into the REALLY weird areas of fanfiction) so it STILL isn't an issue.
Bringing Splinter into the argument is also how I think about it XDD (I forgot, in my fic Usagi actually brings up this topic doesn't he?) If Splinter is father no matter what then why is blood so important among themselves?
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You are completely right! Doesn't change the fact at all, and they did grow up together anyway, you can be siblings without being blood-related.
I can honestly say I haven't read any T-cest stories and I think I'm kind of glad about that lol.
Well said *nods* ^_^
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XD I've read only one person's T-cest stories and her's are actually fine.
XDD that is my side of the argument as far as not liking T-cest goes yes. On the other hand you can't just use "They're not related by blood!" as an excuse to slash either. You have to know how to work a character's emotions. You can't base everything on blood alone.
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Exactly. Knowing how to work the emotions of the character is important to not completely change their personality. *nod nod*
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This is always what I thought about when the whole 't-cest or no t-cest' thing came up. Which is why out of all of the incestuous pairings out there, I thought that slash via turtles was the most harmless XD
Well said <3
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XDD It really is harmless. Personally it's not really my kinda thing, but really that's personal preference and nothing else. It's so.. ..no important XDD
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I know why you did this *evil grin* And I know what you mean! I am in the same boat as you right now.
*clears throat* Aaaaanyway I hope I didn't offened you though.
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XD no it wasn't that. It was actually because of a comment I saw somewhere regarding the issue and I was all "Oh no! not THIS argument again! >("
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The awkward silence. XD *points at panel 3*
I love this, even if it is incredbly sketchy. Not only because I'm a supporter of turtlecest, but also because it's how I think about my family and others' families.
You know about me and dad and all the biology stuff, so I won't go into that. But yes, for me, blood is just something we are made of. Not what decide who we are, or who our family is.
Also, love how Donnie is all relaxed and, his line at the last panel, is so loveable. It's written all over him that he is just stating the obvious, and nothing more. <3
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XDDD I love putting panels like that in comics where there's a moment of 
X33 and yes yes! You got the atmosphere exactly right! XDD Donny's so not phased about the issue because really... there's no issue to be phased about.
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Those moments are awesome. XD
Exactly.
I mean, if I did that to... to those siblings I've never met, it wouldn't change a thing. Just as it wouldn't change a thing if I did it on my biological father. They don't mean anything to me; only my "real" dad does, and my lil' bro and mom. I have a lot of "water" in my family, but why should I obsess over it? Except when people tell me that they feel bad for me because of it. Then I will whap them one. Because my family rocks. XD
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