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Carter-Kaine — Real Friends
Published: 2011-10-28 06:00:05 +0000 UTC; Views: 12371; Favourites: 82; Downloads: 416
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To those who claim that Tali and Garrus are Shepard's "Real friends" for being squadmates in ME2. Well They can't do shit aout Shepard being in Jail while Ashley and Kaidan can flash their credentials and get Shepard out since you know, they have their own lives that don't revolve around Shepard and Cerberus.Related content
Comments: 504
couldn't hear you over Shepard literally working for Cerberus, an enemy of the Alliance.
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Couldn't hear you over the Alliance doing nothing about the disappearance of entire colonies
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yeah and Ashley and Kaidan clearly run the Alliance.
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They don't run it, but they abandoned Shepard for seeking support from Cerberus, when the Alliance was not an option.
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They don't work with a known terrorist organization because it's seen as treason.
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Irrelevant, they chose to do nothing while tens of thousands of people were being killed. That's a far more real treason than working with Cerberus.
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yeah an Ops chief is just gonna go save a human colony by herself, go awol and undo all of her hard work at restoring her family's name.....Oh wait She was helping a colony that actually got attacked prep to defend itself against an unknown enemy and met Shepard there? Kaidan does the same thing too? WOW LOOK HOW THAT TURNED OUT. Plus if you do arrival before the collector base Hackett Tells Shepard straight up they're fighting Collector ships away from colonies! get outta here.
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Right, those inoperable turrets did so much to help their colonies. There was only one collector ship, and it wasn't fighting the alliance.
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your word against canon story. I wonder which I'll take.
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There's only one cannon collector ship.
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No, actually, there were more, since James mentioned more in number three. And in case you hadn't notice, it was exactly those turrets which DID save the colony! Shepard was the boots on the ground who was able to fire those turrets because of of Mordin's seeker protection. If it wasn't for Mordin, Shepard couldn't have saved Horizon, if it wasn't for those bloody turrets Shepard couldn't have saved Horizon. If it hadn't been for the unexpected seekers Ashely/Kaidan would have been the ones using those turrets.
Chose to do nothing, indeed! They were acting in a smaller way than Shepard was, but they were acting in the only way they could. The Alliance was on the wrong track, but they were acting too. Shepard on the other hand? HE/She was working with the people who Ashley/Kaidan had were thought were DOING the kidnapping!!!
Sheesh.
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Were there? I assumed vega was talking about the same ship, but maybe not. Regardless, Kaiden/Ashley literally just saw collectors attack the colony, that should have convinced them to reevaluate their assumption that Cerberus was responsible. They were more prepared to take the alliance's best guess over the word of a supposed friend, and the evidence that was right in front of their face. Kaiden and Ash also made the rather odd assumption that Shepard had some kind of say in the matter. It's not like world of warcraft where you can reject a resurrection if you want to.
Even setting that aside, this whole post is ridiculous. Friends aren't measured by their usefulness. They're not tools. Garrus and Tali both trusted Shepard more. Even the supposed proof of friendship, breaking Shepard out of prison, was done begrudgingly. They only did it because the planet was under attack, they still thought Shepard was a Cerberus lapdog.
Garrus and Tali's lives didn't revolve around Shepard any more than the humans. Garrus joined Shepard because he felt the collectors were more dangerous than criminals on omega. Tali only joins your crew late in the game AFTER completing her mission. She could have joined early, but she didn't, because she had other things that needed doing. Then she goes on to become a fucking admiral, which is far more useful in the long run than spectre status. It's just that being aliens, they had no influence over Earth politics. That doesn't reflect on their friendship, just on the circumstances.
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Okay, some clarifications, firstly I do in fact agree that the whole 'real friends' thing IS ridiculous. I laughed at this post specifically because I saw it as spoofing the preposterous idiocy of that far more prevalent 'Garrus and Tali as the 'real friends' post. I suppose that that may not entirely excuse it - a joke in poor taste is still poor taste - but satire has its place. I entirely agree that it would be stupid and cruel to seriously imply that Garrus and Tali were not true friends to Shepard, and it would be a true fools errand to try to tally up the 'truest' friend by which had done the most for Shepard. Totally agreed. I have no wish WHATSOEVER to cast aspersions on Tali and Garrus, of who I am very of.
Secondly, I am not in the slightest defending the position of justifying Ashley and Kaidan on account of their spectre status or the supposed rescue ... which is obviously totally unrelated to anything that happened in the game. Shepard wasn't broken out of jail, she was reinstated as a battlefield decision on the personal authority of Admiral Anderson at a point where Ashley and Kaidan weren't even spectres yet. That makes no sense at all. Not dreaming of defending it.
Yes, there was more than one ship. Still can't remember whether it was from James that I heard it first, but I looked it up and yes, two Collector vessels were destroyed in the M.E. 2 era. Moving on.
What I am really arguing with is your allegation that Ashley and Kaidan chose to do nothing. That is the most utter nonsense. Did you really fail to understand what they were stationed on Horizon for?
... Okay, the Alliance did not have the intel that Cerberus had. They were not in a position to get it. (They hadn't been working with the Collectors.) So their actions against the Collectors were less effective, true. So rather than sending a strike team against enemies they didn't know about, they sought to bolster defenses for at-risk colonies while seeking for the culprit. A perfectly logical way for a military to react.
Ashely and Kaidan were not in a position to - like Shepard - run off on a quest into the bad guy's lair and blow them up at base camp. Thet did not have the resources or the pull to do that, and they didn't have the intel which would have allowed them to anyway. Instead, they did they best they could in their own - fairly substantial - way. They were given orders to help in colony defense and they did. They were on the front lines of that war. The fact that when the Collectors came they spent the battle paralyzed while Shepard fights seems to have obscured from everybody's minds what they were there to do in the first place, and what they actually did accomplish.
If it had not been for that 'treacherous', 'do nothing' marine division, building that 'useless' colony defense system, none of those colonists would have been saved.
So much for their 'pre-Shepard' actions. Those actions were obviously entirely reasonable and responsible. On to their reactions to Shepard....
Firstly you seem to assume that Ashley and Kaidan SHOULD believed Shepard. .... No, they shouldn't have. A 'friend' you say? Shepard was. Yes indeed. But can you have really gone all this time and not realized that the biggest problem was that they didn't actually know if it WAS Shepard? They you have it. They didn't know who this was. And yes, that was entirely reasonable of them. To have taken Shepard at face value as being Shepard, and to assume that anything she/he said was true would have been incredibly naive and totally irresponsible. I mean seriously, two years after Shepard supposedly died, Cerberus says "Hey, look, Shepard!". Yeah. Uh-huh. (Kudos to Tali, who also considered the possibility of an impostor.)
So, no, they shouldn't have taken Shepard's word for anything at that point.
Also I saw no evidence that they denied the Collectors were obviously guilty. The Alliance suspected Cerberus because Cerberus was known to be evil. They did not think Cerberus evil because they were a suspect. Finding that the Collectors were the real guilty party didn't in the faintest remove any of the reasons they had thought Cerberus capable of it. ... And guess what - Cerberus was.
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Well, technically, the Reapers busted you out. Not intentionally, of course, but their arrival allowed you and Anderson to escape. Nah, jk.
On a more serious note, however, Tali and Garrus were both helping their own people, while Ashley/Kaiden still dosn't trust you after mowing down squad after squad of Cerberus troops.
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The clones proves their distrust to be correct.
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Thank you for also believing that the Virmire Survivor was not wrong for acting the way they were. I mean, 2 years dead and buried. That's something big.
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Well,it´s a little harsh on Garrus and Tali.
But I simply can´t understand all that fan-rage against Ash and Kaidan.
Shepard was freakin DEAD for two years and then (s)he came back, working for freakin Cerberus!
To assume that Shep was a clone, an imposter or simply brain-washed was jus common sense.
Remember that nice "control chip" idea by Miss Fanservice?
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Doesn't this make Anderson Shepard's real friend? He was the one who got Shepard out, recommissioned him/her and gave him/her a cool ship.
I like all four characters involved, but let's face it...Ashley/Kaiden spent way too much time being suspicious of Shepard and bitching him/her on things that he/she had no control over.
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Well seeing as there was a Shepard clone that tried to kill them all, I think they had every right to bitch and complain about cerberus didn't they?
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Wait, I'm confused. If Garrus and Tali follow Shepard around, wouldn't they try to break Shep out ?
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They've got no Authority with the Alliance as they are a Turian and Quarian. Ashley and Kaidan on the other hand are the same rank, or outrank Shepard in the Alliance, and they are Admiral Anderson's right hand when Shepard is dad and when Shepard is with Cerberus.
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Then Kaiden/Ashley would just break Shep out legally. Garrus and Tali would break Shepard in illegally.
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Tali and Garrus wouldn't even be on Earth because they'd be tending to their own home world/Fleet in the face of the Reapers. Plus who wouldn't get suspicious of a Turian and Quarian on Earth?
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But what was stated was who will get Shep out of jail. Besides, Archangel and Tali knew what happened with Shep. I'm pretty sure they would attempt to help Shepard.
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Apparently everyone know what happened to Shep. Even Grunt. "Didn't they lock you up?" "yeah, but they have other problems now." If GRUNT knows Shep was locked up, they would too.
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Ah, must've missed that detail.
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(Im sorry if this sounds like im trolling, because im not trying to) Because Garrus and Tali were preparing for the Repears! What were Ash or Kaiden doing? Jacksh*t, that's what. Not to mention the fact that Ash and Kaiden called Shepard a traitor on Horizon.
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Ashley and Kaidan were preparing the ALLIANCE for the Reapers. Seem to remember fleets being mobilized or something before Earth was attacked.
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Them, and Anderson seems to be the only one to care about the reaper threat in the Alliance.
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Yup. But don't forget about Hackett too. He always believed in Shepard
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If given the choice, I would have left them both on virmire.
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I'm an unabashed fan of Garrus and Tali, I won't deny that. Kaiden, I was prejudiced against initially because he was voiced by the same guy who played the whiney bitch that is Carth Onassi. He has grown on me since then though, the "beef, bacon and beer, the food of my people" bit from the Citadel DLC winning me over. Ashley, sure I romanced her during my very first play through. Then I realized how...wooden she was. Okay, a hot latina gunny who likes Walt Whitman. Normally, I'd go for that. But there was something about the delivery that rubbed me wrong.
In any event, I tend to make her the sacrifice on Virmire nowadays, and I usually romance Tali or Liara, or Garrus or Liara, depending on if it's a MaleShep or FemShep play through. In my opinion, yes, the VS had valid reasons for not trusting Shepard in ME2 *during* Horizon. After Anderson briefed them though, I don't know. Tali and Garrus were under no obligation to stand with Shepard, yet they did repeatedly.
As for the VS being made a Spectre, I'm sorry, but that was politics. Udina was already planning the coup and he wanted all his ducks in a row. He bumped up a soldier he thought would be loyal. No different from when he arranged Palin's death and Bailey's promotion to commander. The fact that both moves bit him in the ass doesn't change that they weren't promoted solely on their merits.
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pssst. Hey psssssst! guess what?
*suspense*
*drum roll*
*whispers*: no 1 cares.
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I give what I receive. When I get "Assley and Kayden sucxors Tali& garrus r da bst" I give back "Garrus is useless in terms of the Narrative and Tali is a racist toward the Geth until Shepard tells her otherwise." I'm not opposed to civil discussion on the four characters mentioned, but I have yet to receive any on this deviation. Until now it seems.
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I was hoping for a better retort, honestly.
Had they really broken you out of prison to get out and fight the Reapers, and if anyone could tell me of a canon Quarian Spectre since the Morning War, I would concur with your poster.
And yes, I understand it's an old poster and you were working with the information and information you possessed.
As it is, the VS just happens to be aboard the Normandy so Shepard can have someone besides Vega run around with him/her on Mars (well until Liara arrives and Vega gets sent back to the shuttle), and just happens to be chosen by a politico who wants more of "his kind" running around with a license to kill.
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Still can't hear you over their spectre status, garrus being the most useless character in the mass effect narrative and Tali's unwillingness to leave the Normandy (as well as Garrus's)
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As it's been said, the VS only got the Spectre status because they were being used by Udina, not because of their actual merits. Specist nepotism does not equal skill or qualification.
Hell, the same could be said for Kaiden making major and Ashley making the absurdly improbable jump from operations chief to lieutenant commander. Kaidan can be argued that he was given the promotion so that he could lead the biotic spec ops squad. But in Ashley's case, going from noncom to line officer inside of a year is impossible unless she's kissing some serious ass or sleeping with someone high in the chain of command. Even if she isn't, the only other explanation would be Anderson and Hackett pulling some serious strings, up to and including blackmail. Or it's simply the writers deciding that they'll ignore realism when it comes to military rank and protocol. Or all of the above. Who the hell knows.
As it is, Kaidan's grown on me, but Ashley's nothing more than eye candy bordering on Mary Sue status.
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I'm sorry but while I love Kaidan and Ashley to bits, they don't do jack shit. They didn't visit you while you were in the brig, call you a traitor repeatedly on Mars and the Citadel and practically turn against you. Gar Gar went into like and deep depression and Tali modeled the rest of her life after Shepard. Aliens: +3 Humans: +0
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Kaidan and Ashley: continue fighting for the reaper threat in official channels trying to get the Alliance and council to listen since they were there. Question if you're still with Cerberus since they mysteriously have access to an alliance facility. Aslo pro-tip, if you vist them in the hospital at least twice it's impossible for them to turn on you during the coup because they get to atch up with you, so if you meet hem half way they listen like a rational person, but if you're all "you yelled at me, how dare you, then FUCK YOU SHEPARD.
You wanna know who really doesn't do jack shit? Garrus. He is literally the LEAST important character in the game. He ignores your advice tos tay with C-Sec and tries to be you and fails, getting his entire 12 man team killed because he couldn't see a betrayal from a mile away. He's got the biggest revenge fetish in fiction thinking that shooting your problems is the right way 100% of the time and that rules are bad and when characters are realizing their full potential in ME3 All he does is find the leader of the Turians and goes back to the gun. Tali to her credit becomes and admiral then an ambassador for her people, Wrex leads his species, Liara's the Shadow Broker and Kaidan and Ashley get promoted and gain Spectre status. Garrus is unimportant. Humans: 2 Aliens: 1
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Hey I know this post was done years ago but I'm a bit confused on something you said. You say the VS is trying to get people to listen through official channels but I don't see it. I'm not trying to be a dick so I apologize if it comes off that way but from what I've seen they're actually buying into Sparatus's finger quote powers. "Ah yes Reapers." Man I hate that guy but I digress.
What exactly did I miss? Was it a conversation or a terminal entry? It's just something that's been bugging me.
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No worries. It was mostly BSN BS that Tali and Garrus were Shepard's REAL friends while Ashley or Kaidan was gonna betray them in ME3 when in fact Ashley and Kaidan were busting you out of House arrest.
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Uh huh, Garrus Is unimportant..... He was one of the few people trying to get one of the races to prepare to fight for the reapers. Kaiden is boring, and Ash is just a racist. Aliens: 1 Humans: 0
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