HOME | DD

DanielAraya In reply to Butch007 [2016-05-05 01:04:02 +0000 UTC]

I think that's a valid opinion though I definitely disagree for the following reasons:

It's a VERY Japanese story (especially SAC. A lot of it is directly related to Japan's social, economic, and political history. The characters are (mostly) actually Japanese, regardless of how they're abstracted when they're drawn.

This was a genuine opportunity to give an Asian actress a starring role in a blockbuster.  The argument that there's no box office-drawing-Asian-actress means that this diversity problem will continue to be cyclical. There won't ever be one if Asian actresses are never given major roles.

Anime characters not being drawn to look Asian enough just isn't enough of a viable reason IMO. A drawing is an abstraction, so if the character's bio is that her name s Motoko Kusanagi and that she's Japanese and the story takes place in Japan and reflects a future which was designed by building off of Japan's actual history, then maybe that should be respected.  Shrugging all of that off to give another caucasian actor/actress a lead role in a blockbuster film just seems incredibly disrespectful to me, and what's kinda sad about it is how much people don't give a shit about what it feels like for minorities (especially young ones) to not see themselves reflected in the media they're bombarded with.  Being a little kid and learning at an early age that you can't ever be the main character of a big adventure is a pretty shitty feeling, even when you're not 100% conscious of it.

I don't think "Hollywood" is being deliberately racist, I'm sure she got cast because she's one of the most popular and recognizable young actresses working right now so she's a safe bet.  Without the safety of her box office numbers, I doubt this movie would even be made.  It's just unfortunate that this how the world works. 

As far as why anime characters aren't drawn to look Japanese (in most cases)?  I have no idea why that's a thing and I'm very curious to learn how that developed.  If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably because most contemporary anime styles evolved from Osamu Tezuka's work (I'm oversimplifying), and I think he was openly influenced by a lot of early Disney work, which placed a lot of emphasis on appeal by giving characters child-like attributes (like giant eyes).  I'm just guessing though and I could be VERY wrong about a lot of that. 

But like I said, I don't buy the whole style thing as a good enough reason to counter all the reasons why diversity is super important.  Akira and Ghost in the Shell are both VERY Japanese stories and were  (especially in Akira's case) direct commentaries on Japanese culture and history. 

Thanks for the kind words about the artwork man

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Butch007 In reply to DanielAraya [2016-05-05 16:07:03 +0000 UTC]

This is just not a "Hollywood problem."  I gotta be honest, I think you're taking on a bad fight where you don't even have the actual creators of the source material to back you up... / Sam Yoshiba, director of the international business division at Kodansha, the Japanese publisher that licensed Ghost In The Shell to Paramount, told THR. "She (Johansson) has the cyberpunk feel. And WE never imagined it would be a Japanese actress in the first place."  Shirow hasn't said anything about the casting so I have to lean on statements made years ago when he flat out said his protagonists were heavily influenced by western hero archetypes.

"Style" when it comes to designating the race of a character in design isn't exactly the same as the difference of choosing between blue jeans or black trousers, despite how modern games may influence young minds, it's not that trivial obviously.  In fact race isn't an augmenting accessory to be lightly added or cast-off for convenience sake at all, it's sad that some people see it this way when race dictates so many problematic situations or so much privilege in real life.  Anime/manga producers understand this and it's why they have clung to so tightly to making all their characters look white for so long without questioning it.  To just glaze over the depiction of conflicting racial origins against environmental situations in the source material is just a  means of kicking the can down the road a little further and not actually dealing with the litter/psychological pollution problem.

To play devil's advocate here for a second, a major limitation your position forces on Japanese creator's in this is almost like they "aren't allowed" to use western archetypes to build characters in their stories.  Is that what you're saying? 

Again, this is not my position and if this kind of conflicted "race stylization" reflecting in-congruent racial types in foreign environments as indigenous happened in one or two productions for flash value I could see.  However, because an entire large industry is standardized on it, has been for more than two decades and the result is twisted perceptions of race in the real world have developed, in part because of it, it constitutes a substantial social problem.  Most if not all Asian fans of manga/anime self-identify with with the stylized white characters in anime/manga. 

Back when I was digging up stuff on this I did find that Tezuka admitted the character's were made to look white to make them more relatable, thus more marketable, to larger Western audiences.  The problem now is that there are too many fans of the work that aren't willing to accept that and that the characters are intentionally made to look white and have a discussion with the progenitors of the art style and content about that.  Most fans instead want to argue a weak point that the characters, in the current design state, look Asian and everyone else is racist for seeing it any other way.  

  
  

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

DanielAraya In reply to Butch007 [2016-05-05 17:52:52 +0000 UTC]

I think you missed a lot of my other points about why it matters to have an asian protagonist in an asian movie influenced by asian history.  Also all of my points about why it might be a good idea to just have more minority roles for the sake of children's self esteem.

Trying to talk about this issue is very emotionally draining for me though, and usually makes me feel pretty shitty, so I think I'm going to stop debating here.  Thanks for the back and forth though, I think that the debate itself is super important and I think that you make great points.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Butch007 In reply to DanielAraya [2016-05-05 19:31:47 +0000 UTC]

Np, I didn't mean to drag you down.  I do agree with about the desired result...just leaving the source material the way it is, I think, will eventually just create another wedge between people over a period of time.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

DanielAraya In reply to Butch007 [2016-05-05 22:14:52 +0000 UTC]

Oh no worries man, you're not being an asshole or in any way unreasonable. 

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

DanielAraya In reply to MrGameNArt [2016-04-29 18:53:29 +0000 UTC]

Thanks! SAC seemed to have a lot of that so

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

DanielAraya In reply to JordanKerbow [2016-04-30 17:58:00 +0000 UTC]

Thanks yo

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

DanielAraya In reply to Phaeton99 [2016-04-30 17:58:07 +0000 UTC]

I agree! 

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

DanielAraya In reply to PJToon75 [2016-04-30 17:58:18 +0000 UTC]

Thanks!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

PJToon75 In reply to DanielAraya [2016-04-30 19:56:51 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0