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LoreC10 — United Spain
Published: 2018-07-04 23:26:41 +0000 UTC; Views: 2513; Favourites: 33; Downloads: 23
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Description
In this map I reorganized Portugal with its particular administrative units patterns, to try making it matching some sort of Spanish criteria, plus I made some little changes here and there. My opinion is that the Iberian peninsula (or Spain) looks pretty nice organized in this way.I based my reorganization of Portugal mainly on merging modern municipalities to make provinces. All the new provinces take the name of the main city. From north to south we have:
- Braga
- Porto
- Vila Real
- Viseu
- Coimbra
- Castelo Branco
- Lisboa (Province and Autonomous Community together)
- Évora
- Beja
- Faro
The first 6 are part of the Autonomous Community of Northern Portugal, Lisboa is a self governed City/Community, while the last 3 provinces are part of the Alentejo and Algarve community .
The two Portuguese archipelagos which are also annexed, become two mono-provincial Autonomous Communities.
edit: in today Spain I have added the province of Talavera de la Reina
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Comments: 49
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alternative map of Europe mapa europeo alternativo
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La parte a sud dei Pirenei. La parte a nord è andata alla Francia.
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Spain is not the name used for Iberian peninsula, it is the name of a single Iberian country just like like Portugal and Andorra.
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Iberia and Spain are two synonymous, Iberia is more a straight away geographical name while Spain is more historical. Modern country of Spain got the name because it covers most of Spain. If you don’t believe read this: pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hisp…
What do you think about the reorganization I made of Portugal? And what about United Iberia (or Spain)?
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Portugal is not a Spanish/Hispanic country, there's no common point between us and the Spanish's, there's different culture, language, thinking, different habits, and different people.
People from that country, took that name and used only as their own for a long time ago, now the term Spanish have nothing relating him to Portugal and his cultural identity, we only call or selfs Iberians because that is the name of the geographic region we live on.
And by the way the true name of the Spanishes is Castillians, as the language they call Spanish is Castillian, they only changed it name to the Spanish Hispanics or whatever.
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The name of “Spanish” language is indeed Castilian because it is form only a part of actual Spain, the central part, after in the peninsula there are many other people and language with are mostly close to each other…
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Castilian is the main standard point of the Spanish culture, yes the Spanish, that's why in Portugal or in the Portuguese speaking cultures is a bit useless if you want to have full assimilation on there, as well there no bulls race in the streets of Lisbon and Rio, or even Paelha is our national plate(that last ex, was a bit stupid,but I hope you see the point of what is been talking).
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Well personally I think that sharing a peninsula it’s enough to be in the same country, even if you didn’t share any cultural feature (which is not but anyway). After of course I don’t want assimilation for Portugal and the Portuguese language (I love your idiom particularly by the way). I think that even if Portugal became Spanish (or Iberian as you want to say) it must keep its language and culture, like Catalonia is doing.
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Iberian is the nominym gaved to everything related to the Iberian cultures, countries and peoples. And Spain is not were every Iberian country camed from, it was made by a larger country called Castile absorbing minor countries like US made to some Mexican States.
Portugal is in no way connected to Spain like Catalonia, and we dint even ever shared dialects, and we are a lot more connected to the lusophone cultures(Portuguese language), (Portugal, Brasil, Cape Verde, Angola, Mozambique......), proposing this monster map is like telling England to adapt to German, since we are one of the major members of lusophone network, there's no way Hispaniscs would fulfill that paper they would desintegrate us from that culture and they will diminishing the status of our dialect in the world.
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It’s true Castille kind of absorbed the kingdoms of the Spain one after the other (even if for the case of Aragon that was a union which is a slightly different thing), although I think that she was able to do that because of her central geographical position allowing her to have more direction to expand than the other kingdoms that were already on the edges of the peninsula. My big regret about this process is rather that after the political expansion came the linguistic one that strongly reduced the linguistic diversity in central Spain, that’s because I actually like that there are many Romance languages so I don’t want them to die out.
Well, Portugal actually was temporary absorbed into Spain like Catalonia at one point, so you can say that you have something in common
That’s natural that you have more cultural ties with other Lusophone countries than to Spain but again, my favorite criteria for countries is geography, that’s why I believe that Spain and Portugal should unite. Said that I don’t wish that Portuguese lose its status or global importance, I believe that if Spain wants to absorb Portugal it should change its constitution and make Spanish and Portuguese equal official languages (and in my ideal they should also add Catalan).
This is for granted but I also think that Portuguese in Portugal will never decline if there’s such a big country like Brazil that stays Lusophone, the importance of Portuguese will not change after all so there is no point for Portuguese people to stop speaking it.
proposing this monster map is like telling England to adapt to German, since we are one of the major memberslol, you say that like it was a bad thing, well, luckily for you it seems you never gave a look to my gallery…I am a Panlatinist (even one which is quiet extremist), that means that I actually want that all romance countries (for now in Europe but than, who knows, maybe also in the world) unite in a federation. I think that cultural pan-nationalims is not a bad thing at all, so I would also be in favour of a germanic union (even if that would waaay more complicated due to linguistic diversity in that group) but of course, I am from a Latin European country so I only speak for myself!!
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Look call me sceptic, considering I have nothing with or against Hispanic people's, but i must tell, Portugal never got absorbed or even becamed one with Spain, it was a Spanish King, and he was the closest heir to the Portuguese trone, since the duth also was greetened by that King heracy, we all should be a brotherhood and a degenerate family.(Not true different realms)
Portuguese is Important, Spain never respected it among any region of them, camed from Portuguese diaspora (Ceuta, Galicia,Olivensa), in Ceuta they were severely punished and today there's no Portuguese language there, Galicia a bit bigger than Ceuta is not allowed to use his traditional language(Portuguese) they never made any kind of investment and curse every effort Galicians(Portuguese diaspora) made to adapt their language to the modern Portuguese, considering the importance criteria, Portuguese fulfill that, it is coward and sick the way they have treat our culture because the accumulated hatred they have against us from the pass, today they are the same, shameful and ridiculous.
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Well, I told you, Castillians should change their attitude towards their minorities in Spain!
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Look call me sceptic, considering I have nothing with or against Hispanic people's, and I like a few, but i must tell, Portugal never got absorbed and became one with Spain, it was a Spanish King, and he was the closest heir to the Portuguese trone, since the duth also was greetned by that Kings heracy, we all should be a brotherhood and a degenerate family.(Not true different realms)
Portuguese is Important, Spain never respected it among any region of them cammed from Portuguese diaspora (Ceuta, Galicia,Olivensa), in Ceuta they were severely punished and today there's no Portuguese language there, Galicia a bit bigger than Ceuta is not allowed to use his traditional language(Portuguese) they never made any kind of investment and cursed every effort Galicians(Portuguese diaspora) made to adapt their language to the modern Portuguese, considering the importance criteria, Portuguese fulfill that, it is coward and sick the way they have treat our culture because the accumulated hatred they had against us from the pass, today they are the same, shameful and ridiculous.
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Very good work!!! I worked about this idea in past but finally I left. I didn't find a satisfactory way to merge Portuguese districts. You merged municipalities, so the result is marvellous. Although my autonomous communities would not be exactly the same. I'd include Madrid and Albacete inside Castile and would unify Portugal (except Madeira and Açores) as an single Autonomous Community.
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Thank you! Hem, I actually used mainly municipalities but in some rare cases I even used freguesias!
Yes I know, we don’t agree on the configuration of Castille but it’s ok, we can disagree ^^’ But hold on because I’ll soon update a new dev and it’s gonna change some things! btw, which are the deep reasons why you would change Castille that way?
I guess that’s the same problem I’d have with extended Castille, Portugal united would be waaay bigger compared to other Autonomous Communities (even more than the Castille you propose), that would break any balance!
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Culturally, Albacete is, most of all, part of La Mancha and Castilian (see this map ). It's an artificial province and was included in Region of Murcia in past for some political reason that nobody knows. Madrid is historically part of Castile, obviously, and I don't like enclaves so, that's the reason I'd include it inside Castile.
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The problem with Albacete as a province is that the area around Hellín used to be historically and culturally linked to Murcia (it still is, though much more tenuously), while the rest of Albacete, including Albacete itself, was not, not from a sociocultural perspective. The provincial division was indeed artificial (you'll see no Murcian claiming Albacete with a straight face, we do bring the issue as a running joke at times, especially to piss them off), but the result was ultimately detrimental.
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Still, the map is much better than most attempts. All regions sort of make sense and could have been arranged that way.
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I guess the answer is that part of the modern province of Albacete was under the kingdom (and maybe because they also noticed that Castilla with Albacete was too big)…
Well well, I don’t know if you can call an enclave an entire province of 6 and half million inhabitants 
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Most of the current Albacete province never was part of the Kingdom of Murcia, nor they identified with it, instead being a part of New Castille. Everything started with the proposal in late XVIII c. by Count of Floridablanca (born in Murcia) and continued by Javier de Burgos in 1833 (who really didn't care very much about history) who made this mess possible by including a whole new province with a land they mostly didn't want to be a part of, because except for the southeast, they wanted to belong to Castille and the rest of La Mancha.
Quite shortly after the nonsense of De Burgos several signs of appreciation to the province of Albacete came from La Mancha and the rest of Castille: The "Castillian Federal State" that included Albacete, the concept of provincial commonwealths, the idea of the "Mancha Region" that included Albacete, Ciudad Real, Cuenca and Toledo ("manchego regionalism")... Albacete always felt like a stranger and a second-class land in the invented Murcian Region. This was partially fixed with the creation of Castille-La Mancha when Spain was divided in autonomous communities after the death of dictator Franco, because Madrid was separated and made a single-province community and Guadalajara was annexed to the four provinces in which La Mancha lies on. This allowed Albacete to be in the region with the neighbours they wanted and acquire a power that never had before, but instead left the southeastern, historically Murcian part, in a region that was not their own, because the newly created state and laws didn't allow provinces' limits to be redesigned.
Nowadays the amount of people in the province of Albacete that feel Murcian is mostly negligible, save for slightly higher figures in the part that goes in a straight line from Yeste to Almansa.
If you are able to read Spanish or translate into it, this is a recommended reading: www.dipualba.es/archivo/Estudi… .
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I understand but the city of Albacete was actually part of the kingdom of Murcia...
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Yeah, but not before being part of Castille and taken by Castillian troops before Murcia. That's why it is history.
It's OK, it's your map, but I'm pretty sure most of the people in Albacete would not like a reunification at all.
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Yes, but in those cases, it's just the city. Community of Madrid is much bigger than city of Madrid. Madrid as a federal district should be much smaller, including only Madrid and some surrounding municipalities. See this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_m…
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Well, I’m coming to Madrid on September so I guess I’ll find it out, but looking a map the city and it’s surrounding the Community of Madrid doesn’t seem that much bigger than the actual metropolitan area. Sure there are some “rural” areas around the city (it seems mainly to the north, southwest and southeast) but I think that a city-“state” also needs those zones to be complete, the two main reasons for that being:
- the need of eventual expansion land (Madrid seems to need it a lot give the expansion rate it has). Take Brussels, in the 70s (IIRC) they chose an area they thought it was enough to make their capital district but later the city developed far beyond those limits and now Brussels has huge management and development problems having a metropolitan area that spans over three different federal jurisdictions (and well yes, Brussels also has linguistic problems, but that’s not the case of Madrid of course)
- the need of having some primary resources under its direct control so that in emergency situations they could be managed better (for example last summer Rome was in emergency water need but luckily Lazio region has some big natural water reserve around Rome so they could use them quiet quickly).
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OK, I understand what you say but my point of view is different. No problem.
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Sure, we can disagree on things ^^
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Castile is too large so you'd better split it into New and Old Castiles; North and South Portugal can be renamed to Portugal and Algarve respectively (although not accurate).
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Ok I might know what to do with Castille, I will update soon a new dev.
Mmh, I named the South “Alentejo and Algarve” because it represents all of the traditional regions included there and it is not too long as a name after all. I actually thought about calling the North just “Portugal” then I decided to specify it is the North not to discriminate the other parts of actual Portugal.
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Now that´s a good spain^^
But I would give up Melilla and Ceuta to have no problems in Africa and get Gibraltar.
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It is!
Oh true, I forgot about Gibraltar! Thanks for reminding me!
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Nice map
I often wonder how the world would've look if the whole Iberia was united before the age of colonization.
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Thank you!
Less Iberian I guess (and probably more anglo-saxon, so not really good)…
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Hmm, perhaps more French & Dutch too, both tries to annex Brazil, and without an independant Portugal they would've probably succeed.
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Mmh maybe, although the gap in power compared to Britain would still bring nothing good IMHO...
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Well, Britain became the main european power thanks to Waterloo (mainly winned by its Hanovrian troops & their Prussian ally to be fair) and earlier industrialization.
But France was stronger in the previous century, and could've become the first maritime power if Napoléon didn't reject the idea of using coal for his ship (there is a famous quote about this, but I didn't remember it exactly, it's something like : Vous feriez avancer un navire avec un brasier sous le pont ? Je n'ai pas de temps à perdre avec de telles inepties)
I don't think that Britain and Anglo-saxons power were predestined to be the greatest power of this world. It's only happen because France & Spain made mistakes, but the world could've been French or Spanish instead of Anglo-Saxons.
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Britain became the main European power thanks to the early industrialization, Waterloo was a consequence.
France was indeed stronger before but their reserves of coal gave Britain a too big advantage...
Indeed thought France and Spain (and other countries as well) have made many mistakes...
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Without Waterloo, France would've keep Belgium and Ruhr, so we would've get bigger reserves of coal than Britain
Waterloo couldn't be a consequence, the use of machines a vapeur begin later only. Waterloo is mainly due to major diplomatic (especially by starting a war in Spain) and strategical mistakes (invade Russia in winter)
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*without Berezina maybe
It was, because Britain already begun to use coal in some industrial machinery already in the 18th century and at the time of Napoleon they had already increased their richness importantly so they could win more easily.
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Love it, but given you had Aran ceded to France you may give us the Roussillon.
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I gave Spain Andorra and Alta Cerdaña, plus other little clays to match the Pyrenean line .
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How about adding French Basque Country.
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