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martinhoulden โ :Innocence:
Published: 2005-02-10 21:28:43 +0000 UTC; Views: 6065; Favourites: 99; Downloads: 517
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[::: Innocence, Concept [ORIGINAL] :::]Just something a little different i guess XD
A famous psychologist, i forget the name (and no, not Freud - there ARE other psychologists apart from freud you know >8o), but anyway he studied Social Psychology - and to quote his theories: "give me a young, healthy child and give me the choice of my own environment to bring it up in, and i can bring that child up to be whatever i want it to be - a musician, an artist, a scientist - a criminal"
This is just ... me reflecting the idea that maybe the person we are is only a result of the world we have been brought up in. Are we biologically at fault for our actions - whether we do good or bad deeds? Or are we just a cumulation of our event triggers throughout life?
If you bring up a child that might otherwise be good, in a world that values corrupt principles, who is to blame when that child does unspeakable things? Or should we believe that we are pure at heart when we are born and nothing will change that?
and just for the record, if any of you are stupid, i'm not pro-nazi in any way at all. What they did was terrible, obviously, and thats kinda my point. Its just an observation from my point of view. And, again for the record i'm not defending what they did or making excuses for them. It's just food for thought
And also yes, it is kinda meant to be a nazi in training, if you want to take it literally like that. She's being forced by her parents/whatever to live a certain way, but yet she is still a child and is oblivious to her potential evil, as she plays with the mouse.
[::: Data Trash :::]
Medium: Mech Pencil
Paper: Hotpressed A4 Printer Paper
Duration: 90 - 120 mins
[::: Innocence ยฉ Martin Houlden, ONI.DS 2005 :::]
Related content
Comments: 83
damn now ill be podering that psycologist words for years ><
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Maus: By Art Spiegelman; I own those books. Great pieces of literature they are~ And I've heard that theory before too..forgot who it was. It also reminds me of another guy's theory (of whom I also don't remember) who thinks that our actions and memories come from purely senses (touch, scent, etc.) and so asks if a person has no senses, would they be able to think and rationalize for it from rationalization we make choices.
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I dont know if you know this... but that swastika (excuse me if I misspelled it) symbol was not orriginally a "nazi" symbol... they (nazi's) stole it... very unfortunate... from what is called "buddahs footprints" on the bottom of wach toe... exept the the big one... there was a swastika symbol... in moderns india it means "auspicious"
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lol, thanks for that ... but ... that topic has been covered a few times, and yeah i already knew that XD its in the front of the graphic novel "blade of the immortal" ! thanks 
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Yea i kinda notice that it had been covered... my apologies
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That's so beautiful... I like your pencils
Reminds me that, well, kids get involved in wars, fighting, but not knowing why they fight, and what exactly they are fighting for... being controlled by megalomainmiac leaders for some pathetic reason... and in the end, they end up killing, and getting killed....
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i just want to get one thing out of my head that always bothered me, and i quote my 6th grade history teacher who said, " The nazis hated jews and roman catholics so much that they took the cross, bent every side of it as an insult, and then used it as thier insignia." end quote. Insightful thinking, but totally not true. Im abit ashamed that a history teacher would get it wrong.
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well, your history teachers version was more romantic anyway XD romantic in the true sense of the word, heh
uh ... but its pretty bad that he doesnt know his ... history!
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Your picture really expresses what you want it to. I like the style and couldn't notice it until I saw it fully, but it's a really good peice.
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I know who you're talking about!! I can't remember his name either, but I know about him, I think he had made up some kind of theory of some sort....... Grrr, damn my blasted memory!!
Anyway, I get what you're saying and it makes a lot of sense. It is what I believe. And your picture came out great nazi jacket or not. It's a beautifully done picture.
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...Interesting. I always enjoy food for though. This psychologist of yours sounds like an interesting fellow. She's cute, kinda makes it more sad that she is being raised as a nazi.
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Her face is beautiful, and I like that you're using it to explore spychology. I personally believe that we are a result of both our environment and our genes, but hey, we can't change our genes, so focussing on changing the environment we develop in is important. Concidering the theme, this makes me pretty sad...
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i like this alot. I really do. I like what you're trying to express thru the girl. But i must admit, i thought she was asian at first and the symbol on her clothes was the eastern symbol for peace. (People think im crazy when i say that, but yes it is true. Reverse it and it is the symbol for peace. Hitler thought he was being funny/smart when he turned it the other way and used it for his campaign.)
But after i read you're description i understood it better. I love her face. i love the style. i love the idea ^^
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thanks! and yeah ... i guess i didn't really think about the fact she looks asian XD thanks for the input and the comment, glad you liked!
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ooo, thats actually really intresting. she's been forced to train as a nazi, with the nazi logo's on ehr and everything so she seemes evil, but her face and adolesents shows she's still just a young kid tryign to figurethe world out still.
thats really cool, and you drew it really well btw.
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wow awesome *0* !!! impressing work ont the ambience *__*!!!
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Really excellent in terms of both the idea and how you pulled it off. At first glance it just looks like an amazing picture, then you look closer and it makes you think. I believe I shall be watching you...
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thankyou sire ! *salutes*
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Tis my pleasure! *salutes back*
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This is so cute! I really like how you shaded this picture. Very nice!
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i think this is your best.. 
it has a very calming effect.. 
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The picture is beautiful.
You know, that's something I've thought about on occasion. It's really interesting to think about how our evironment and the people we spend time with influence us. That's something that I sometimes use when creating a character's personality, thinking not only about WHAT their personality is, but what has made it that way.
I find it fascinating, and you captured it all perfectly in this drawing.
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well done...and very interesting meaning behind it.
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Those lines are just so natural and beautiful it takes my breath away. *stops breathing and dies*
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When I first saw this I was reminded of Ghost In the Shell, particularly a comment which more or less translates to "we are the result from the data sent to us through the network"
You are right in many senses. We as humans have a biological inclination for certain things, what the call "tendencies". For instance, one may have the tendency to eat more than his brethren. So when two brothers grow up in the "same" environment (note the quotations on same), one eats more than the other and takes more resources. The reason for the quotes on same is that even if two people grow in the same place, the experiences they gather is quite different. I may live with you in the same room, but you may have never seen the cobweb at the corner. I on the other hand do. Being afraid of spiders, I start to clean, and hence my tendency to clean gets activated and reinforced. So I become the cleaner. You, seeing me clean, turn your tendency to be lazy on, and become a slacker.
My two cents.
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Your skill and the emotions in your drawings always never fail to amaze me! You're a true artist.
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amazing...shadding 
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Your comment that came from the picture brings up a lot of different ideas and concepts.....quite a thinker, I LIKE!
The picture itself has a very calming and serene look.....innocence is a really great word....it describes it perfectly! I wish I had the vocabulary to give this picture the appreciation it deserves!!
You really are amazing.
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awwww, youre too kind! Thanks, means a lot
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From what I've learned in bio class, the behaviour of a matured individual is both caused by genetics and the environment they live in.
There was an interesting study done on Fischer's lovebirds (agapornis fischeri) and Peach-Faced Lovebirds (A. roseicollis), where they observed a fairly complex behaviour -- building nests. Specifically gathering the material. Both species have very unique ways of gathering material. One gets long twigs and carries it in its beak while the other one takes short pieces and tucks it under its wing. Anyway, the two species was crossbred to make a hybrid lovebird. These hybrids showed an intermediate behaviour -- they actually had a lot of trouble collecting material.
So, the genetic makeup of an organism does have a lot to do with their behaviour.
Somebody's personality is dependent on a series of environmental an genetic influences.
Though, we can be as you say, "biologically at fault" (I'd say we're more victims of chance than at fault). Disturbances in our genetic makeup can cause certain tendancies like agression and alcoholism. There is also conditions called Klinefelter's syndrome, which is where the male has XXY instead of the regular XY chromosomes. I'd think that would have a major effect on their behaviours, considering they have mental retardation. Also there is XYY, which I was told about a long time ago. It's something called "super male", and it basically causes males who have violent tendancies and exaggerated male behaviour. I think the person who told me said that researchers suspected that the number of men in jail largely consisted of XYY men. Haven't looked in on it that much though.
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yeh we're actually doing about the XYY people ATM, or rather, i've been reading about it. I think its more a case of most XYY men end up in jail rather than jail being made up mostly with XYY males. I mean, if you did a ratio of XYY men in the general public compared to their ratio to normal men in jails, there does seem to be a sway there.
Yeah the behaviour thing with the birds is quite right, but i believe behaviour is different from personality. Behaviour is merely the innate stuff that we're born with, you know, like cats have the natural instinct to chase things, and that similarity can be seen across all cats (well most, there are always exceptions). We have the natural ability that has evolved through generations of our species to use language - we still need to learn that language, but we do have the capablity. There have been some feral kids brought up in the wild, only to come back to human civilation for the first time without being able to speak a word. But they have soon learned the language, even though their upbringing was completely different
anyway, im very tired, and im pretty much going completely off topic so i'd best stop, hah. Thanks for the input! I'm pleased other people are interested in the subject too
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The swastika and crux gamata are just mirrors of each other I think...
Make sure you drew a crux and not a swastika...
excellent drawing by the way haha
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well, i WANTED to draw a swastika, hah
Yeah ... when Samura wrote BOTI, i dont know if youre familiar with it but the lead character has a big crux on his back. He insisted that, unlike most mangas, that the images not be mirrored. Theres no official reason for this, but i guess it'd make sense if it was down to that?
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No comments 
AWESOME.
ยกยกยกยกยกยกยกยกยกยก
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Before I read the desc, I was like 'YES! Someone using the swastika with it's original meaning!!!' It used to be a symbol for peace, I saw it everywhere when I visited Indian Buddhist temples. But then I read you meant it as the second meaning. D'oh ;_; But still. Neat concept. I wish it was possible to rescue the symbol to it's roots though.
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Well, i am at least aware of its original meaning XD and was when i drew it, so i'm not a completely ignorant tard. Its a shame that its so synonymous with evil now, otherwise it'd be a nice little peace symbol ... you know, like the actual peace symbol, heh XD
Thanks!
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I really like her hair. ^^ Her head looks a bit large, but aside from that, I love it. I like how you didn't really add much of a background, it adds a feeling of isolation to the pic. Nice work.
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tee, cool
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Ah well, maybe it's just me. @_@;; It looks good anyway, I really like it! ^-^
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Yes, I for one think things like racism are taught.... :\ But how do you get rid of it at this point, you know? >_< This is great concpet though! And so well-drawn! Gawd, I wish I could do that. O_O
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I think that enviorement conditionates your attitude but when the child grows up he can choice what he really wanna do, what to believe... al'right, The turning against the enviorement can prove to be just too hard, and lots of people prefer to stay cool and calm believing whatever they are told....
The most important thing is to learn to think, after that is just a metter of choice.
(excuse my english, I know it's bad....)
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as long as that kid is brought up with the knowledge that the notion of innovative thought and individual thinking without being limited by restrictive social code is ok, then i agree that a kid can be brought up to believe whatever they want to be. I like to think that i'm quite open minded and will see things for what they really are (whether i'm really like that is not for me to decide), but some kids are brought up in a very limited environment and have parents who stereotype and provoke racism around them, often without explaining a reason to their child - thats even if they have a reason. The child then grows up to accept this as norms, and never challenges them. Like we know gravity to be a norm so we dont challenge its concept, whats to stop a child accepting a "race as being evil" if they have it enforced on them when in that developmental stage.
Thanks for the comment!
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