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MrWolf86 — Vegan kills too - stamp
Published: 2012-07-25 13:36:30 +0000 UTC; Views: 1597; Favourites: 22; Downloads: 8
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Thinking fur is bad? And people who live vegan are good?That is not correct at all.
Your vegal live also kills inocent animals and whole habitats.
Where do you get your shoes and belts and bags and clothes and exotic fruits and veggies from?
More then 90% of all those products come from countries like east Asia, Brazil, Africa where people have no strict laws for wildlife protection and there your cheap plastic shoes, plastic bags and plastic belts, and fake fur comes from.
It is made of black raw oil which often is responsible for dirty oceans, dead animals on the open sea, and destroyed forests, because governments search for oil also in rain forests and other areas with no civilization.
The exotic veggies like soy, bananas, oil-palm trees and many other fruits get raised on plantages (farms) which are build on post-rainforest lands. There once were huge rain forests, which have been just burned down, for those fucking monocultured plant farms. Animals wont live their anymore, and when the ground does not give any more energy, nothing can grow there anymore! It looks like a desert, it is impossible to rebuild a rainforst there again.
Plastic products like belts, bags and face fur, or shoes are cheap and animals died indirectly for it, but beware of some facts! You just have them a short time, they get damaged pretty fast, shoes often just hold one year (real good leather shoes hold mostly more then 5 years!) fake fur looses it´s pretty new look after the first wash mostly and gets thrown away pretty fast. All those items are not easy to waste, they are special waste, they sometimes get burned in waste-factories, but in most countries they get dug unter a huge mount of mud and other waste and animals eat it and mostly die caused by guts full of plastic waste!
What you can make better:
There is nothing wrong with eating meat and using animal based products. When you wanna be sure of animals which have not been treated bad, which had a good life on a farm or vegetables which had a short way to you, please look at the certification for BIO products in your country.
Or better, you buy your meat and veggies from a farmer you know in your area where you live.
When you have a garden, try to raise some veggies by yourself! Make sure that your clothes and leather or fur products don´t come from china or aren´t tooo cheap.
Here in germany you find for example many real leather products on markets and yard sales, but they are all new products sold by imigrants who buy them in the Tyrkie. They all come from Asia and they are very low priced, for example real genuine leather belts or leather purses for just 5€!
People who made them never see ever money, and the animals....well shall I say more?!
A good leather pelt usually costs 20€ - 50€!
However, many countries have their own standarts for Bio products, please make sure what you have to look for.
Oh, for all those Petards who think they live truly vegan.
Maybe you want to see how many things are made just out of cattle:
static.tumblr.com/xwyphul/oq8l…
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Comments: 144
But we need plastic skin or what?
Sorry but no.
The reason why (for now) vegan life style is the lesser problem, because there are not many vegan people yet.
I don´t know if you did read the text below the stamp.
A lot of natural habitat gets destroyed for our general life style.
It doesn´t matter of palm oil plants are raised for vegan food, soup or other products which contain meat.
The problem is, that more and more natural habitat gets destroyed because of it.
Same out soy and other stuff which is made for masses.
I am also against mass breeding animal life stock.
I do not buy cheap meat from super markets because I do not want to support this type of food industry.
But I also do not want to turn from the black to the totally opposite white side which is not better.
It is very naive to say "okay killing animals is cruel and bad because killing animals! I become vegan now and only buy products with a vegan stamp on is!" >:-D
Without looking how and where the vegan item was produced.
That is just so naive and people think it is easy.
But that is not easy and not the solution.
It doesn´t make a difference if rain forest gets destroyed for plants which get eaten buy animals we farm for meat, or if we make fake steaks and meat nuggets out of them and use them for other products we also would eat when we don´t eat the meat of the animals anymore.
The destruction of the forests won´t stop from it and that´s why I made this stamp.
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Well veganism has raised over 500% since 2014, now instead of 1% of the us population it is now 6% that identify as vegan. Veganism is the fastest growing lifestyle movement right now.
Also, I never said to use plastic, there are way better alternatives to plastic that doesn't harm animals. Sure there are vegans who don't care about plastic but most of use are at least mindful of it, a lot of people will only buy certain things from second hand shops like I do, some just don't buy plastic and use cotton or any other plant made material.
You do realize that the majority of deforestation is caused by the animal agriculture industry right? They do it so they can grow grain to feed cattle, 70%+ of the grain we grow in these forests are fed to cattle and other livestock, and the cattle is paid for by you and every other person who eats meat and dairy. A non-vegan uses more resources than a vegan does, after all it take more food and water to sustain a cow than it does to grow plants. So by buying and supporting the animal agriculture industry, you are also paying for the mass deforestation, mass species extinction of plant, insect, and animal species, ocean dead zones, ect. So, you can't really call vegans bad because we don't want to contribute to this stuff anymore.
If all that grain we grew in the rain forests were fed to humans instead, we would no longer need to cut down tree's and destroy habitat as all the food that is currently growing in the forests can feed the whole world if we wanted to, but the sad thing is over 70% of it is going towards cattle and other livestock.
We're using more resources to produce less food, which is crazy.
On one acre of land you can grow over 50,000 pounds of potatoes, or you can have 250 pounds of meat on it, the potatoes use up less water, and the cows drink and eat way more than a human can a day.
It does make a difference because one way you're refusing to support it, and the other way you are willfully supporting it, and by supporting it you're giving them more money to keep doing it again and again.
That is the difference, and it is a massive one.
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You what is growing almost as fast as veganism? Ex-veganism because after a while most folk's vitamin b12, EPA, DHA, and taurine become depleted. The number of vegans is more like 2.5%. Depending on the time more than 80% return to consuming animal products. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blo…
Do you know where the 70% claim comes from? It is a twisted statistic from the reporting of the USDA of how much soy is used to feed poultry; mainly chickens not cattle, sheep, pigs, goats, or horses. Soy can be harvested multiple times in a year. Chickens grow and reproduce at far faster rates than cattle and greatly outnumber cattle and represent about 95% of the livestock eaten. Also livestock are often fed leftover parts of crops like husks and stalks that we people don't eat. Lets not forget crop surpluses or crops deemed unfit for human consumption.
It is true that beef is causing deforestation, but so is cane sugar, corn, bananas, chocolate, tea, coffee, palm oil, avocados, and more crops. Even more pesticides have to be used to kill or inhibit pests and that runs off into bodies of water harming other helpful lifeforms. Nope, trees are still being cut down to feed people and there is more biodiversity on a cattle ranch than there is in a monocrop like wheat, corn, barley, or radish field. Also there is land that isn't suited for growing crops but is great for raising livestock. Many places like northern Canada, Alaska, and deserted regions aren't practical places for people to be vegan.
Depending on the area, most vegan alternatives and many vegan staples have to be imported and often from countries that don't practice ethical labor laws and burns more fuel. Even in first world nations workers are treated like slaves. Even vegans depend on natural fertilizer produce by livestock to grow their vegan food. Otherwise you'll have to compost foliage which takes longer and more space or produce artificial fertilizer which can pollute the environment. Veganism is really a modern, first world luxury. Even more when tractors and other mega harvesting machines crush, impale, and decapitate tons of small animals like rabbits, rodents, lizards, turtles, and grouse too. Survivors are left displaced/homeless.
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Veganism isn't perfect, never claimed it to be and in the definition it even says
"A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
Not sure why you and a lot of others think that veganism is suppose to be perfect, it cannot be. Animals do die when crops are harvested, and while a lot of vegans will avoid palm oil, cane sugar, ect a lot of others will not because it's just not practicable for them. I even said this is my original post so still not sure what you don't understand.
We're doing the best we can right now to not hurt animals or the environment nearly as much as we did before we were vegan, and I think that's a pretty awesome thing.
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And who's definition of 'as far as possible and practical' are you using? Leaders of a cult or regime? By the way humans are animals and omnivores. Often veganism excludes human welfare when you think about it. Tons of synthetic fibers pollute the environment, but fur, down, wool, and even leather decompose and add nutrients to the environment. Do you know what will happen if all domesticated breeds were set free? They would become extinct. They depend on human care and won't be able to cope with life in the wild. Sheep for example need to be sheared and if they eat specific plants their lambs develop birth defects. Plus they're often easier targets for predators. Also many vegans love almond milk even though it is water intensive (thus hard for the environment, causing droughts too) and tons of bees are killed for raising it.
www.motherjones.com/food/2014/…
Why is wrong to kill a large steer/cow for beef or a large tuna or hog? Those result in one death and can feed dozens of people but it's ok to kill a bunch of bees for a carton of almond milk? Heck, almost everything we do like drive, use running water, and electricity is somehow interfering with or even killing animals. I don't see any vegans willing to give up modern conveniences to live like wild animals.
If anyone wants to be vegan by choice, then they should go for it. But to misrepresent it by saying it is better for the environment, results in no suffering or death is being dishonest. Such deception fuels negativity and even violence such criminal activity and terrorism.
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I don't drink almond milk, or even like almonds for that matter.
If you want to talk about water and resource wasting you should look at yourself in the mirror.
Cows, and other livestock take up much more water than a vegan can, and what about the food you feed those cows? They sure take up a lot of land and water to (Hint hint: most of the deforestation happening in the rain forests)
You can feed more people on 1 acre of land that's used to grow crops, vs 1 acre of land used to raise animals. On one acre of land you have have 1 cow, or 55,000 pounds of potatoes, or 50,000 pounds of tomatoes.
Don't you find it hypocritical to try and find flaws with veganism, when you're doing much more harm than vegans do anyways? The definition clearly states that veganism is not perfect, what part of that don't you understand? All it's about is causing the least harm practicable and possible, which is an amazingly good thing. It is better for the environment and wastes less resources, even if a vegan does decide to drink almond milk they are wasting less resources and less water than the average person (non-vegetarian) does, after all it takes a lot of food and water to raise animals, especially larger ones like cows and pigs. I never said it caused 0 animal death, I said in the last one that animals die from harvesting crops all the time. I was never dishonest, so I'm confused why you're coming at me with this.
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Actually no, quite a few vegan staples and favorites use more water than they realize such as nuts and many crops like coconuts take time to grow and mature, much longer than cattle. Many don't grow in first world nations and thus need to be imported which require more fossil fuels and most are grown on large plantations where workers aren't much better off than slaves. Monocrops and mining are causing just as much deforestation as beef. Plus quite a bit of human blood has been spilled over squabbles involving avocados, cashews, and quinoa. It is better to buy some responsibly sourced local animal products than some exotic grain or veggie you can live without. Even though you don't drink almond milk, majority of vegans do.
Not all land is the same. Some places can't grow crops well at all but others are great for raising cattle, sheep, and other grazers. So you can either get 10,000 + pounds of meat or 25 bushels if your lucky. Grazers can convert grass and other plants in usable fuel far more efficiently than humans can. Plus they eat leftovers crop wastes or rejected crops. Plus their manure fertilizers the ground allowing their food to grow back and fertilize our crops. They also consume water in ways humans can't. Even more meat provides specific nutrients that a vegan diet doesn't provide such as vitamin B12. Using supplements is proof that the vegan diet isn't balanced.
I find it hypocritical that many vegans need to distort the truth and still do more harm than they realize. Such misconceptions justify all sorts of misdeeds against nonvegans. It is like saying all mentally ill people are violent and all Catholic Priests are predators. I know most vegans aren't bad people but a number of them keep spewing nonsense. If you're going to criticize someone for doing it wrong then me my guest. But don't lump all nonvegans as the same. Death isn't the problem, imbalance is, and veganism causes imbalance. In order for veganism to exist, we need livestock. The best thing to do is to mimic the natural ecosystems and cycles. Veganism doesn't allow that and if we followed it to the logical end, it would create more wasteland because their won't be any animals to make use of crop waste. No culture or nation past or present has ever sustained on veganism.
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wtf? Why are you so aggressive? I never said all non-vegans are the same!!! I never distorted the truth. Like, wtf?! What misdeeds do vegans do to non-vegans? Usually it's almost always the other way around. There is almost nothing we can do to hurt them, but there are a lot of things that they do that hurt us. Did you ever see the news a year or two back about the 10 year old vegan kid who killed himself because of bullying from his classmates? Or how they threw meat at him and called him names? What about the non-vegans that go out of their way to harass and send videos of animals being killed to vegans? Stop acting like we're all out to get you or out to FORCE you to go vegan. You have control over yourself and you decide what you do, not us. We never "shove" veganism down your throat, you have free will and can choose to listen or not. We never force someone to go vegan, you can't.
If you're talking about the vegans that protest against eating animal products, you can't really blame them. This is something they are passionate about, something they see that is wrong and immoral. Just like the pro-lifers a who do the same thing and protest outside with pictures of aborted fetus's. It's something they are passionate about and care about deeply, they see it as wrong and you can't blame them for having that opinion. It's something you're just going to have to get over, just like we have to get over that some people will never care enough, and that for most people taste is more important than a life.
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Aggressive, no. Quick to point out the fallacies and short comings, yes. I don't condemn or hate vegans for their choice of diet but I will be quick to point out half truths and lies they keep perpetuate such as animal agriculture mainly causes massive deforestation when plant agriculture, mining, and other causes are every bit to blame. Or how healthy the vegan diet is and how it is the optimal way for humans to eat when the majority of vegans quit, cheat, or become sickly. Seriously countless kids get sick and even died from the diet too.
Do I support vegans being bullied or harassed? No, and if I had the power I would've punished the offenders severely and their parents/guardians if they were minors. I don't support criminal activity or harassment but lies are often the basis for folks to wrongfully react and is why you get stronger pushback. I have family members who went vegan and never perpetuated any of the half truths or lies and we all got along fine. Please look in the mirror yourself for all misconceptions you're keeping alive. Swamps, marshes, industry, transportation, terramites, and even homes produce more greenhouse gases than animal husbandry.
I personally don't see anything wrong with being a vegan and I always got along with respectable ones. Animal products can and have been raised in eco friendly ways. Meat reduction is a better option than meat abstaining for most people. Another good example is that there are plenty of atheists and agnostics who know that banning religion is stupid and that getting rid of it won't stop wars. Religion has been banned before and its removal didn't solve anything. The majority of wars were started over greed, pride, lust, and even misunderstandings not religion.
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Stamp used here:
cmc--scootaloo.deviantart.com/
Thank you for making it!
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don´t be stupid. most rainforest areas are erased for lifestock food.
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That´s true but I am also against mass breed animal farms and only support small local animal farms who raise their own crops.
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most meat comes from mass breed today ;.;
If you try to buy local organic it can be okay.
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Yes that is true. It is because people want cheap meat so they can eat it every day.
That is unhealthy. I eat meat like once per week. I do not have so much money to buy so much meat I can eat it every day because the meat I buy costs obviously more X3
But that´s okay.
I don´t understand why people want to eat so much meat when they can see it is from sick animals. Meat like this can make us sick too. But it seems most people don´t care about that.
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That is true. most people I know eat about meat every day o.o
here in germany it is still normal. But there are lots of vegetarians, too.
They don´t see that it comes from sick animals and htey try to ignore.
Yes, that is fucked up, if they would do that with dogs, everyone would freak out -.-
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Ach du lebst auch in Deutschland? X3
Ja, weil Hunde halt mehr als nur Haustiere sind, und als Nutztiere werden sie schonmal garnicht betrachtet.
Vielleicht ist ein grund auch der, das der Mensch den Wolf/Hund immer als sowas wie ein auf gleicher Ebene liegendes Tier gesehen hat, schließlich haben sich beide Spezies zusammen geschlossen um Beute zu machen.
Schweine und Rinder sind schon immer Beutetiere gewesen. Früher halt die Wisente und Bisons, weil diese zur Beute gehörten.
In Asien hat die Domestikation von Hunden scheinbar nicht ihren Ursprung, Hunde kamen wohl erst dort hin als es sie schon gab und wurden dann dort weiter gezüchtet für verschiedene Zwecke, unter anderem auch zum essen, aber man weiß ja das die da echt alles essen XD
Das was ich zur Zeit mit Sorge betrachte ist, das auch Supermärkte immer mehr "Premium Fleisch" anbieten wollen, egal ob Ibericoschweinefleisch oder sogar Wagyurindfleisch was beides recht teuer ist und das sollte nicht zu billigem Ramsch verkommen.
Diese Sorten sind ja nicht umsonst teuer. Wenn das aber jetzt auch noch für "die große breite Massen" produziert wird, wird das die Preise unweigerlich senken weil die Supermarktketten als größte Abnehmer wieder druck auf Produzenten machen.
Wenn die dann darauf eingehen haben wir auch da eine Abwärzspirale.
Da muss ja nur ein Farmer der Meinung sein das auf Masse produzieren ertragreicher ist als auf Qualität zu setzen, und andere ziehen eventuell nach.
Mit den Freilandhühnern ist das ja teilweise auch schon passiert.
Meines Erachtens ist aber das größte Problem die mangelnden oder nicht durchgreifenden Kontrollen durch Veterinäre.
1. es gibt zu wenige davon, zu wenig werden eingestellt (das entscheidet ja die Politik, weil der Staat gibt den Ländern oder Kommunen ja das geld dafür)
2. in manchen Gemeinden scheinen die viel zu lasch zu handeln, man sieht es ja auch oft bei Tierhaltern (egal ob Nutz oder haustier) wo Tiere völlig verwarlost leben, dreckig, krank und so weiter.
Sowas gehört einfach gestoppt.
Selbst in Bodenhaltung können Hühner ein gutes Leben haben wenn sie anständig versorgt werden, sie sind dann immernoch gesund, haben ein normales Verhalten, aber die Bauern müssen sich auch drum kümmern.
In Mittelfranken gibt es so eine Organisation, die die konventionelle Haltung von Schweinen verbessern will und nennen sich Strohschweine.
Das sind keine Bioheltungsformen, aber es soll die Haltung auch ohne Biolable verbessern.
www.google.de/search?q=strohsc…
Aber wie überall funktioniert das nur, wenn die Tiere gesund bleiben und das geht nur wenn es auch sauber bleibt, wenn genug Platz da ist.
Wenn die Firmen (Großfarmen sind für mich Firmen) nur auf Kostensparen setzen, dann leiden nicht nur Mitarbeiter an zu schlechter Bezahlung sondern auch die Tiere, und das sollte einfach unterbunden werden.
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ich kann es verstehen, Hunde wuren ja auch los zu gewissen Zwecken gezüchtet.
Aber diese Haustier-geht-vor-Nutztier Einstellung geht mir auf die Nerven. Das ist heutzutage völlig überholt(jedenfalls in den Indurtriestatten)
Es ist immer toll, wenn man als Ausrede "ich habe das Tiere niemals gesehen und ich kann es anonym im supermarkt kaufen", benutzen kann.
Es ist einfach falsch.
Das Fleisch ist allgemein zu billig. Aktuelle Angebote für Fleisch bei Netto kg Preise:
Schweinegulasch 4,58
Putenkeule 3.42
Schwein Rinder Hack 3.78
Frikadellen 3,38
Das kann doch nicht mir rechten Dingen zugehen O.O
Da muss ja nur ein Farmer der Meinung sein das auf Masse produzieren ertragreicher ist als auf Qualität zu setzen
Ich glaube, das ist auch teilweise so, weil die Leute immer billig haben wollen(kenne ich aus meinem Umfeld, zweieinhalb Zimmerwohnung aber nach Poen fahren, um noch günstigere Lebensmittel u. Zigaretten zu kaufen -.-) und es heutzutage einfach so ist, dass die Produzenten mit Massenproduktion nur noch über die Runden kommen.
1. Stimmt. Ich bekomme soetwas zwar nur aus Berichten mit, aber scheinbar kann man so Tiermessies oder Besitzer von Tieren, die offensichtlich vernachlässigt werden, anzeigen, aber es passiert nicht wirklich etwas.
2 bei interresse google mal Schweine Hochhaus. Es ist wirklich gruselig.
Die meisten Nutztierrassen, die heute verwendet werden, sind überzüchtet.
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Das ist war, aber es findet auch langsam ein Umdenken statt.
Zumindest gibt es bauern die wieder auf alte Rassen setzen, man muss sie allerdings suchen und diese dann auch unterstützen.
Ich kaufe gelegentlich bei diesem Bauern über ebay:
www.ebay.de/usr/hochmooraner?_…
Die sind teurer als die Sachen im Supermarkt aber nicht extrem teuer.
Zum teil doppelt so teuer oder teurer, aber ich finde das das Fleisch besser ist, hab da schon diverses gekauft und bin damit zufrieden obwohl es kein Bio ist.
Ich habe bei Perfetto (heute heist das Karstadt Lebensmitten) auch öfter Freilandhähnchen gekauft, und wundere mich auch oft über die Supermarktpreise für ganze Hähnchen.
So ein gefrorenes Hähnchen kostet um die 3-4€ ich finde leider keine Seiten wo Produkte direkt beworben werden. Weder bei Netto noch bei Aldi.
Diese Freilandhühner kostet jedenfalls um die 10-12€
Biohähnchen kosten um die 15-18€ die sie gelegentlich auch haben.
So selten wie ich mal nen ganzes Huhn brauche kann man sich das mal leisten.
Ich mache ja nicht jede Woche was damit, aber ich kaufe es gern weil ich davon 3 Tage was mit machen kann, anders als nur mit einer Hühnerbrust was nur für einmal reichen würde.
Naja die Leute müssen selber wissen was sie tun, denn ja, es liegt auch mit am Kunden, klar.
Ich denke Schuld daran ist zum teil auch die Mentalität die die Leute in der Nachkriegszeit so in den 50ern und 60ern hatten wo die Leute mit viel und üppig scheinbar anderen zeigten das sie es "geschafft" hatten.
Konsum und Überfluss war etwas gutes, keiner hat hinterfragt wie was produziert wurde.
Zu der Zeit hat die Industrie so richtig wieder losgelegt und Tierzucht musste nur noch effizient sein und nicht mehr was besonderes sein was man sich an Feiertagen gönnt wenn man sich das leisten konnte.
Man hat das damals als innovativ betrachtet.
Man hatte damals wohl auch nicht die Einstellung das Tiere Gefühle oder gar eine Seele haben.
Im Christentum ist davon eh nicht die Rede.
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Ich persönlixh brauche kein Fleisch.
Und ich bin sicher, in den meisten Schlachthöfen dürften keine guten Verhältnisse herrschen, auch, wenn Biotiere dahinkommen.
Das kann gut sien, Religion ist soweiso Verblödung pur -.-
Tut mir leid, dass ich nur so kurz antworte
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Ist schon okay.
Ich habe nicht so viel zeit um auf so extrem lange Texte einzugehen eigentlich XD
Ich selber möchte nicht auf Fleisch verzichten, dafür mag ich es zu sehr, aber ein anständiger Umgang damit ist mir schon wichtig.
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ich kann es verstehen, aber es wird immer schwieriger, die Produktion nachzuvollziehen.
Es gibt mit Sicherheit auch noch viele Höfe, die selber schlachten.
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Die kleineren machen es, oder liefern an kleinere Schlachtereien in der Umgebung, die es auch noch gibt, aber es stimmt, es ist besser wenn man sich persönlich informieren kann.
Leider wohne ich noch im Ruhrgebiet wo es wenig Zuchten gibt und die die es gibt die ich vertrauenswürdig finde sind sehr schwer ohne Auto zu erreichen, ich würde sonst dort hinfahren und es persönlich abholen und auch mal mich umsehen wollen wenn man schon mal da ist.
Ich habe mal ein Praktikum auf einem bauernhof gemacht wo es Schafe gab, die haben auch selber geschlachtet, aber was mir da nicht gefallen hat, war das die Tiere nur im Stall waren.
Die waren gesund, habe sie ja jeden Tag gefüttert, angefasst und alles, es gab da auch Tageslicht und so, aber ich hätte mir gewünscht das die Schafe und Lämmer wenigstens einen Teil des jahres auch mal auf eine Weise können.
Der bauer war auch ziemlich eingebildet und unfreundlich zu mir, hab nach meinem Praktikum dort keinen Kontakt mehr gehalten.
Ich kenne hier in der Nähe aber einen Bauern der Freilandgänse hat, und auch selber schlachtet. leider mag meine Mutter keine Gans oder Ente, sonst hätte ich da mal was gekauft.
Wenn man sowas nur einmal im jahr wie an Weihnachten oder so isst, kann man sich sowas ja mal leisten.
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Bei mir geht es gar nicht, in Berlin>.< Es gibt zwar ein Wildfleischhandel, bevor ich kein Fleisch mehr gegessen habe, hatte ich überlegt, da mal hinzufahren, aber das kann ich mir eh nicht leisten. Ich ziehe bald nach Brandenburg und ich würde gern mal auf einem Biohof ein Praktikum machen. Da gibt es auch einen Milchhof, der mit behinderten Leuten arbeitet, viell. gige es dort(hab Depressionen) obwohl ich gegen milchproduktion bin. Will es mir mal ansehen, bevor ich nur Sachen aus dem internet nachplappere.
DAs gluabe ich, Bauern wird halt eher beigebracht, wie sie am besten produzieren, nicht, wie s der Tieren am besten gehen würde. Und dann denken alle, den Tieren gehts doch gut. Bescheuterte Gesellschaft...
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Das ist leider so, das stimmt.
Solange es aber Leute gibt die sich das leisten können das es auch anders geht, kann sich auch was ändern.
Ich denke, solange es Menschen hier gibt, die nicht viel geld haben, wird es auch immer Massenware geben, weil diese menschen selbst wenn sie wollten, nicht 100% fair einkaufen können, vielleicht geht das bei Fleisch aber sonst? Auf Fleisch kann man ja noch verzichten wenn man kein geld hat, aber was macht man wenn man dann auch keine Milch mehr zusich nehmen will?
Die Alternativprodukte sind ja auch nicht wirklich billig, oder kann man da was selber machen?
Selber machen ist meist eh günstiger als kaufen.
Oder die Leute schlucken diese Nahrungsergänzungsmittel, die aber ungesund sind weil sie künstlich hergestellt wurden und darum vom Körper schlechter aufgenommen/verarbeitet werden, zumal sie eigentlich auch für Leute mit Unterfunktionen gedacht sind und nicht für generell gesunde Menschen.
So wie die Milchproduktion heute abläuft, finde ich das auch nicht richtig, aber meine Mutter will die teure Milch von Demeter nicht kaufen, ich bin schon froh das ich sie dazu bewegen konnte überhaupt Biomilch zu kaufen.
Ich will auch umziehen, allerdings nach Nürnberg, weil ich da schonmal gewohnt hab als Kind, aber ich erhoffe mir da auch bessere Berufschancen.
Ich selber habe Asperger, wurde mal diagnostiziert als ich 13 war, aber wegen Scheidung, Sorgerechtsklagen etc bin ich dann wieder zu meiner Mutter und habe keine Dokumente mehr darüber, darum muss ich mich jetzt wieder neu diagnostizieren lassen, das ist vielleicht bescheuert, nur weil mein Vater so sehr nichts mehr mit meiner Mutter zutun haben will (vermutlich aus Scham) hat er auch mich aus seinem leben verbannt und hat heute eine andere Familie wo es mich angeblich nie gegeben hat.
Bei Depressionen hab ich neulich gelesen, das wenn diese länger als 6 Monate anhalten kann man auch von einer seelischen Behinderung sprechen, das heißt, du könntest einen Grad der Behinderung beantragen und dann eventuell gute Chancen für diesen Bauernhof dort haben.
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Also Bio könnte ich auch nicht nur kaufen, und da weiss man auch oft nicht, ob das jetzt wirklich so viel besser ist.
Alternativprodukte wie tofuwürstchen o.ä. braucht man nicht wirklich. Man kann aus Sojabohnen, Hafer oder nüssen mit Wasser auch selbst Milch herstellen.
Es ist toll, dass deine Mutter biomilch holt. meine Familie wird soetwas wohl nie verstehen...
Das tut mir leid. Ich lese oft, dass psychische Probleme besser verstanden und akzepirt werden, aber verstanden oder unterstützt fühe ich mich kaum.
Aber das ist auch immer eine subjektive Ansicht. Ich bin halt auch nciht einfach im Umgang und muss da wiederum ein bisschen Rücksicht nehmen.
Wenn ich in der WG wohne, könnte ich so einen GDB beantragen. Ne Freundin von mir hat einen mir 30% bekommen, und sie kann mit ihrer Depression noch mehr alltagssachen erledigen als ich.
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Jam mit Asperger ist es da ähnlich, man bekommt da zwischen 30 und 60, je nachdem, manchmal auch mehr, und wenn man zusätzlich noch ne Depression hat, kann man auch noch mehr bekommen.
Das mit dem gegenseitigen Rücksicht nehmen musste ich selber auch erst lernen.
Ich neige oft dazu Sachen zu sagen die andere als unpassend oder sogar beleidigend empfinden weil ich sie als sachlich sehe und nicht mit Emotionen verknüpft, für mich sind es einfach tatsachen. An anderen Stellen kommt es auch oft vor das ich Dinge im falschen Moment sage, nicht merke an Hand von der Mimik oder vom Verhalten einer Person, ob das was ich sagen will jetzt der richtige Moment ist.
Wenn mich jemand gut kennt, kann das immernoch problematisch werden, aber man kann dann wenigstens mit einander reden, wenn die Person offen ist und das verstehen will.
Wenn jemand aber fremd ist, dann ist das so gut wie unmöglich, und es gibt nur Ärger.
Darum ist eine normale gelassene Sprache für mich mit anderen kaum möglich.
Ich rede mit Frenden nur dann wenn ich muss, weil ich mir vorher immer überlegen muss was ich sage.
Im Internet passieren mir solche Sachen auch, aber wohl nicht so extrem oft, bzw es ist dann halt nur das Internet XD
Face to Face ist es ja doch nochmal was anderes wenn ein mensch plötzlich sauer wird und man nicht kapiert wiso.
Früher wusste ich nicht warum mir das immer passiert, ich dachte immer ich wäre dumm, geistig eingeschränkt oder behindert, zu niedriger IQ oder sowas, aber heute wo ich weiß was Autismus ist, liegt das sehr viel näher, weil es all meine Verhaltensweisen und Probleme mit anderen im Umgang erklärt.
Meine Mutter schaut sich manchmal mit mir Sendungen wie Mex das Marktmagazin und solche Dinge an, da haben wir verschiedene Dinge gesehen, und die testen viele Sachen, nicht nur Lebensmittel und so.
Diese Sendungen haben sie dazu gebracht umzudenken.
Ich habe Sojamilch schonmal getrunken als ich im Heim war. Da gab es eine Vegetarierin die bekam das extra, und da wurde schonmal mehr geschickt als sie trinken konnte, aber ich mochte nach einer weile diesen seltsam öligen Nebengeschmack nicht mehr.
Bio von Discountern würde ich auch nicht unbedingt kaufen. Habe da auch mal was drüber im Fernsehen gesehen, sogar schon mehrfach, das die die niedrigsten Standarts haben, damit sie ja billiger sein können als die anderen Biosachen wie Bioland, Demeter und so.
Die Preise sind da schon sehr unterschiedlich.
Ich denke alles was schiere Massenware ist, hat irgendwo seine 2. Seite der Medallie.
Ziegenkäse vom Discounter kostet unter einem € für 100g glaube ich, schmeckt aber scheußlich so wie die Ziegen riechen, nach Ziegenstall.
Aus einem Käseladen, wo die Verkäufer sehr gute Qualitäten und keine Massenware verkaufen, bezahlt man für die gleiche Menge das 3 oder 4fache, wenn nicht mehr, aber man bekommt ein sehr gutes Produkt, das zwar nur bedingt zu bekommen ist (also wird es nur saisonal sein meistens) das mehr an Bio heran kommt, selbst wenn es kein Biolable hat.
Wir kaufen ganz gern bei Karstadt Lebensmittel /früher Perfetto, Wurst und Käse weil die da noch eine richtige Theke haben, und sich mehr auf Delikatessen spezialisiert haben.
Um jetzt beim Ziegenfrischkäse zu bleiben.
Da gibt es ja diesen doch sehr bekannten: src.discounto.de/pics/Angebote…
Hab den einmal probiert, war das erste mal das ich überhaupt was ziegiges gegessen hab und fand es zum weglaufen.
Jahre lang nie wieder sowas gegessen.
Der käse kostet heute 1,66€ je 100g, das war jetzt schon gut 9 Jahre her, da war er damals vermutlich billiger.
Dann Jahre später, den hier gekauft:
www.amazon.de/Hofk%C3%A4serei-…
Bei Perfetto bekommt man den für 3,99€ den kleinen Eimer wie man den da sieht, in verschiedenen Varianten, ganz anders, viel sahniger, kremiger, überhaupt nicht penetrant.
Das war bisher dort bei jedem Ziegenkäse den ich dort gekauft hab, die alle so 3,50€ - 4€ je 100g gekostet haben, egal ob Hart oder Weichkäse.
Ich denke das hängt sehr davon ab was die Tiere zufressen bekommen.
Der billigste den ich finden konnte ist der hier:
www.supermarktcheck.de/product…
Bei solchen Dingen ist meine Erfahrung, das die Dinge die Qualität sind, besser schmecken, und die kosten leider mehr.
Man sollte sich da von bekannten Marken nicht verwirren lassen.
Bärenmarke, Land Liebe und so, die sind genauso in der Qualität wie die billigen G+G, Ja etc Produkte, aber teuer im Vergleich. Wenn ich bereit bin so viel auszugeben, kann ich auch gleich Bio kaufen, selbst wenn es Edeka Bio ist oder so, das ist besser als Bärenmarke und co.
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lol all the butthurt meateaters trying to justify their unethical livestyle are hilarious xD
people really should educate themselves and watch Earthlings and Cowspiracy on , Just so you actually know what you are talking about next time.
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yep fur is bad (considering we don't need it) yes vegans are good (because they are living as environmentally friendly and cruelty free as they can)
Yeah that makes no sense. you are trying to say I bought FAKE products from a country that doesn't protect its wild life, that has nothing to do with it. please explain yourself better, I'm interested in what you meant?
those exotic veggies? I don't buy them. I only buy local where there were no rain forests destroyed. also, organic.
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What I want to say is that vegan products have an origin where animals also die for. For example all the plastic products.
Plastic needs to be made of something. This is black oil or plant origin. Plant origin like corn is nothing better than killing animals directly because for the masses of land needed only to produce monocultural corn fields, many species can´t survive in an area like this.
For example, i live in germany, for away from rain forests. But here forests, grass land, shires get damaged, no better said would be they get destroyed, to just produce corn fields to produce the so called organic plastic, organic fuel for hybrid cars. It´s also a killing of animals, it´s just an indirect way which causes more trouble for nature than farming animals and kill those.
Even if you don´t buy products which come from Asia, you still kill with buying plastic because you hate fur and leather so much.
Black oil needs to come from somewhere and it doesn´t only always come from Iran or somewhere else in desert. There are also places in the sea. They (also the huge amounts of boats) produce a lot of noise in the water which causes many animals loosing their orientation which also causes them to end on beaches like wales and dolphins.
I hate it when vegan people baw at people who eat meat and wear fur, when their lifestyle also kills. You are not better than me and you are not perfect.
Live on a farm where you raise your own food with your own hands, make your own electricity and clothes and you can say you are better than anyone!
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yes, everything we do these days is killing animals, I agree, and vegans lifestyles are definitely not 100% free of animals. but where you are wrong is that plant origin is better.
you mention corn, you can get more corn (the product) out of a field that you could beef (the product) also cows release a hell of a lot of greenhouse gases, more than cars.
black oil is used for lubricating slow moving machines.
yep. wherever we farm we are going to destroy something. but the same would happen if you were to farm cattle on that land rather than plants. after cattle have used the land, it cannot be used again. Their hooves compact the topsoil, and nothing will ever grow there properly again. I have been recently studying this. Where as plants leave nutrients in the soil, making it better for growth.
how is it killing animals? and its is proven that livestock farming is one of the worst things for the environment. farming plants is much better.
even though I disagree with taking oil from the ocean we only do it because there is such a demand. maybe we should all convert to greener cars, that don't need the oil. oil extraction isn't really my topic of knowledge, but I do know that you can use oil and eat meat (two things that are killing the environment) or you could use oil and not eat meat (only one)
I don't think vegans have any right to do that, but they do have a right to educate people, and I know as many preachy horrible meat eaters who baw at vegans (I think you might be a culprit, calling people petards) and vegetarians for not eating meat as I have seen vegans being horrible to meat eaters.
vegans are not better than you, but they do live a more environmentally sound lifestyle. not to mention ethics.
Most people try to grow as much of their food as they can, so its not like we aren't trying. Most people are beginning to put solar panels on their roofs to make their own electricity (my house generates all it needs) and my family buy almost all of our clothes from second hand shops, to lessen the demand for more and to stop waste clothes going to landfill.
vegans arent trying to say they are better than everyone (or they shouldn't be) and they aren't perfect, but they are trying to live as cruelty free and environmentally friendly as they can. I think more people should open their eyes and applaud their efforts.
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I agree with you about what thing you try to tell me. Because here in Germany where I live, many people can´t make their own electricity, they needs agreements of the government here, otherwise it would be illegal. Stupid laws, I know.
I also don´t buy meat from mass farms, I am strictly against mass raising of animals, and I can´t afford a car, even though it was a life long dream of mine, but because Germany is expensive on cars, you don´t have to only buy the fuel which is incredibly expensive since some years, you also have to pay plenty of different tax for it.
Black oil itself maybe is used by a few machines, that´s true. But we make fuel out of it and plastic and I am sure many other materials too.
I think it is a good idea to make plastic out of organic stuff, but if it results in destroying our nature for more corn fields to make fuel and plastic out of it, that just is insane and can´t be good. There a life for the environment goes into the wrong way.
That makes me mad kinda, because the government acts like they do something good, they kinda force people to believe them and it is kinda 'Augenwischerei' I don´t know the english word for that. It means you tell people lies and they believe it and to because it is 'good'.
Luckily since some years we have some signs used on meat you can buy which garantees the animals have been raised good, didn´t get medics like antibioticas. But like I said, I am not rich and I can´t buy meat here and there, we eat meat once in a week and I think that´s absolutely ok since it is affordable for us and I think it is important that you know where your products come from. We also buy fruits and vegetable which were farmed in Germany and come from farms which are in our state. That´s important too. You pay a little more, but you get good products without chemicals or something. It´s a little more expensive than buying at huge supermarkets, but we are a two-person-household and we don´t need that much anyway. Guess if you have 3 children it would be hard if only one person works and the other cares for the children, you can´t look about where you buy, but just grab what´s the cheapest and the biggest amount you get for your money.
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I would NEVER buy meat from factory farms either, but really, if your talking about land factory farms are better for the environment. but they are horrible for the animals. that's why I chose to not eat meat im not being bad for the animals or the eviroment.
I think its good you don't have a car, I don't have one either, and in that way we aren't contributing to the mass pollution from cars. *hi five!*
from what I can understand, no matter what materials we use it will have an impact on the environment. but I believe and always will belive that the skin looks better on the animal, where it belongs. before humans tore it off for themselves. its actually kind off gross. and like I said in a previous comment, its better to grow vegetables than animals.
eating meat once a week is fantastic! if everyone only ate it once a week, the environment would be so much better and there would so much less chance of animal abuse in our farms.
you see, you and me aren't so different, we both want the best for the environment. if only everyone else could want that too. earth would definitely be better!
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Definitely, that´s true. I learned that from information magazines on tv, where they told many things about that nearly everything made for humans has a lot of disadvantages for the world and nature. Maybe we can´t stop it all, or always will need one product here and one there, but some things could be produced less. One of that definitely is meat. I don´t need meat every day. I more love to enjoy a good piece of meat where I know the origin and eat it less often than other people. I also think that the animal always makes a better figure when alive, but I don´t have a problem with using animals for meat, leather and fur and a lot of other products when the animal did not suffer and has been raised with care and healthy.
That´s just our responsibility to the living being and only can be good for us too.
I also don´t mind people living vegan, I just hate those kinds of vegans who always try to convince you to become vegan too and live without thinking what vegan means, the matter of reason for just being vegan. That´s as blind as blindly eating meat and consuming all that shit you can buy everywhere.
That´s what this stamp wants to say. Maybe it doesn´t come across so clearly. But it is hard for me to explain something that explicit when English is not even my native language.
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yeah, we cant stop it all, not yet, but we can do our very best! and if everyone did their very best, it would be enough.
I'm glad you dont disagree with veganism, you just disagree with the people who don't even understand what it is all about.
Maybe it doesnt say quite what you meant, but i understand the difficulty of having english as a second language, hopefully other people took it btter than i did
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Thanks yeah many people till now understood what I tried to say, also my description below the stamp is important too when they want to understand what I try to say.
No I am not against veganism, why should I, if people like to live like that it is their free will just as people who want to eat meat or live as a vegetarian. Everyone must find their personally best way to live. It is just sad that a lot of vegan people put themselves on a kind of high-horse status and try to get down other people who don´t live their standard which is very low I think.
It gets the image to me that most vegan people only don´t eat meat because they don´t like the fact that animals die for certain products which they try to avoid by not using these products.
And not because humans treat animals wrong in many (but not in all)cases and try to avoid exactly this which I try without being vegan in the end.
They more like to baw over people who consume meat just because they know the animal died for it. Maybe those people don´t want to animals being killed for them and can´t live with that, but this doesn´t mean to any people on the world and to call other people murderers and stuff like that is very low just as a try to insult them and change their mind which doesn´t work via slurring at them.
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I agree! As you said,little choices in your everyday life such as choosing what products to buy,where to buy them and in which quantity can help a lot. Too bad some vegans will still call you an hypocrite. I have nothing against vegans in general,but those who go around saying that veganism can save the world...just,no. I don't really think that something like "I am vegan and I'm not hurting anyone" makes even sense. The real vegan does not exist,in my opinion.
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Yes exactly, but no vegan has the right to call me a hypocrite because I stated some facts they maybe don´t want to hear.
The reason why I made this stamp was, because many vegans are hypocrites themselves. They go around and tell other people not to eat any animal related products or so and tell then how much better it would be if all people would live vegan. Yes sure, plastic everywhere then, and the whole land would be used to produce soy and palm trees for that stupid oil because animal fat is not wanted anymore.
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I know what you mean. I have been in the same situation. Fortunately,not all vegans are like that,though.
I think veganism is good for certain things,but at the same time,bad for others. But,in many vegans' opinion,veganism represents the total perfection,which is not true at all. I feel like they live in another...reality. :/
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Yes exactly, I can really relate to your experiences. Some are really nice and are ok with other people not being vegan themselves.
Today I walked through the town and a man about in his mid-fouties crossed my way and said I would carry a dead body around, painting at my fox tail which was hanging down below my coat. I looked at him and growled XD
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I'm scared to scroll down and see all the PETArds that commented.
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LOL don´t worry, I never had really mean comments yet.
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Anyway, here's something you'll like:
static.tumblr.com/xwyphul/oq8l…
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Wow thank you! I didn´t know that so many things are made out of just a cow
I think that´s good, because the more things (useful things) can be made out of natural animal products, the better it is and the more useful it is to raise them.
Oh but they forgot to mention that bones are also used to make jewelery. I often see bone carved elements in those cheap jewel stores like Sixx, Bejou Brigitte, Lam etc...
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I also truly believe that 50-90% of vegans are visi-vegans. They are vegans who are only vegan when people are watching. This is so they can preach and annoy the hell out of people, but don't have to only eat that disgusting stuff they call vegan "food."
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LOL yeah that could be true. Most of them are surely also only vegan because some other vegan petards convinced them with those idiotically propaganda stuff where bloody animals are placed on dishes or hang around someone's neck.
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There will always be idiots.
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