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PieWriter β Science says otherwise
Published: 2012-12-15 16:53:40 +0000 UTC; Views: 3750; Favourites: 90; Downloads: 0
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READ THE ARTISTS COMMENTS BEFORE YOU TRY AND DEBATE. Good God, so many people trying to comment and they completely miss the point. Also, if you want to debate about abortion issues that are not discussed in this stamp, PLEASE LOOK INTO THE STAMPS I LIST AT THE END. Not only that, but there's a whole slew of pro-life stuff you people can foam over in the pro-life groups. Go nuts. *EDIT* decided to disable comments. No one has commented in a while anyway, and I don't have time to read any future comments.Made this after seeing a whole bunch of "IT'S MY BODY!" stamps. Seriously, what prompted that wave out of nowhere?
Anyway, the "It's my body" argument is not only weak, but also false. The human embryo grows his/hers own cells and nerves and organs and hands and feet, eventually becoming a human fetus. And then, of course, the human fetus grows bigger and bigger until he/she is big enough to continue growing outside of the womb. This unborn child moves when you are sitting and is kicking around and playing when you are asleep, and so on.
While the fetus is growing inside of you and is dependent on you, he/she is not your body. Your body is affected, yes, especially since hormones are going crazy and you gain weight and get morning sickness later in the pregnancy. And guess what? Pregnancy won't kill you*. If you eat the right foods and do proper exercises, you won't end up looking like a fat whale and the pregnancy will have very few, if any complications. And with our modern medical advances, complications have slimmed down by a large margin. Trust me, the modern woman has little to physically fear from a pregnancy.
Using the "it's my body" argument as an excuse to kill off a living entity that is most certainly not you is a weak argument. I personally find it makes the speaker sound scientifically and logically uneducated, and I can not take any person seriously who uses that as a legitimate argument.
Related Stamps (I do not like all of the artist's comments on all of them; I merely chose them because the message made a point that coincided with the stamp or is related to it) :
Pro-Need: [link]
Not Your Body: [link] [link]
Not a Clump of Cells: [link]
7 reasons why a feotus is not a parasite: [link]
*And please note I am talking about the 98% or so of abortions that are used as birth control, not the tiny percentage that concerns cases of rape or complications that could kill the mother. I am still studying that for myself to learn more about it before I make an opinion on it.
Stamp base: [link]
Related content
Comments: 138
For the first point: a newborn child can not survive on his or her own. They need constant feeding and protection provided by their parents, and the same can be said for people of special needs, or those who are disabled or paralyzed. Yet can we kill them? It's not about how they can manage on their own or if they can survive out of the womb: it's about biological life and it's sanctity. The moment a sperm and egg come together and new DNA is made, a life has been made. A bird's egg is life, the fertilized seed is life, etc. The same can be said for a human life inside the womb.
For me, rape is no excuse to kill a child. Doing so is unfairly judging it's purpose in life - whether to live at all - based on his or her parentage. It's no better then saying a child should be a slave because his parents were slaves, or that a child should be a second class citizen because his father was one. I go more into this subject in another deviation of mine if you would like to read it: [link] If you want to comment about the subject, please comment over there.
As for medical reasons, I can not comment on that. I would say do anything to keep both baby and mother as healthy as possible (especially since we have good medical care in this age), but I have not studied into that scenario well enough to give an informed statement.
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But the difference is, the fetus/whatever you want to call it, cannot survive while disconnected from the mother until so many weeks of pregnancy. So is it really a seperate life? If it must remain connected to it's host/mother then it really is at that point connected to the mother's body. It is not its own organism. At so many weeks, once it can survive without the embelical chord, then I consider it to be a seperate life. But during those first few months of pregnancy, it's life is the mother's life. Its life is the mother's body. Ergo, if its life and body is the mothers body, then doesn't the mother have the right to her own body?
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To suggest that the fetus is a part of/extension of/is the mother's body is to ignore basic human biology. Just because the fetus is dependent on the mother inside the body doesn't make it any different than the newborn who is dependent on the mother outside the body, not to mention the child is its own unique, growing body. It's DNA sets him/her apart from the mother and is his/her own body.
If you want to discuss this more in depth, there are deviations I list at the end of my artists comments that go over this subject and list some good sources to read over.
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*looks at the comments that everybody made before me*
Everybody just needs to calm the fuck down and stop hurling insults. We're all adults here, right?
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If the above statement doesn't change your views, how about this: Overpopulation
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If overpopulation is an issue, then going out with a shot gun to kill people shouldn't be a problem for you. Maybe we could start with the mentally ill, or the poor?
Also, there's an interesting video on youtube you can watch to learn where the overpopulation nonsense started: [link]
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The simple fact of the matter is that the more people there are, the more resources will be consumed. Nature thrives on living things dying and humanity is only getting bigger because we're so squeamish about death.
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sorry, me again, but you are a bit....retarded....i would say, use logic, its free. and don't fucking say something you made up is science!..that makes me craazy. science is clear and supported by evidences.
fetus is a parasite. please don't only use your biology book to decorate your room.
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Sense when aren't pro-lifers retarded?
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When, like me, they don't try to force their views down other people's throats and are willing to talk about it.
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then you're the good smart kind
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Thanks. On the subject, if I had the power, I wouldn't make abortion illegal, because I realized that that's a terrible idea. In our society, if it was illegal, it would be like Illinois' gun laws. People there aren't allowed to own guns, but there are more gun related deaths there than in any other state. Just my opinion.
Not all pro-lifers are bad, but more pro-lifers should definitely be "pro-mother's life."
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I like how you think insulting me and my beliefs is supposed to endear me to your point of view. Nice try.
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I don't want you to endear you, I know how useless it is to argue with a fanatic (you are definately one) but...the way you explain your view is irritating. your point of view is emotional, not scientifical. and I hate when some idiot thinks sentiment is science. it is f$cking not.
say what you have to say, but do not cover with science, it has nothing to do with you.
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How are my opinions based on emotion? This really confuses me, as I could list countless sources that support my claims. The closest emotional claims I have made are moral beliefs that were mildly influenced by my scientific findings.
PS: Don't you have better things to do than make the Pro-Choice crowd look whiney, rude, and insulting? If I find someone has made a silly and fanatical stamp, or comment on something that isn't my deviation in a similar manner, I usually just let them be and move on with life. You could use that advice, and I mean that in a caring way.
This is the last you will be hearing from me. I hope and pray you set a better example for the Pro-Choice crowd, as I am friends with a few who would shake their heads at your behavior.
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Somebody having different opinions than you makes them a fanatic? Seems legit.
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How is it anti-sientifical?
dear me.
first:
* pregnacy can definately kill you. ( especially in my case it is pretty sure)
second:
in your replies β¦in fact your replies made me comment not your stamp in first case.
for example you wrote, and it is clearly emotional:
"The moment you engage in sexual activity, you are allowing yourself the possibility to get pregnant; your unborn child had no say in whether or not it would be brought to life, so it's not like they barged in on their own accord to suck away your life force. Your selfish attitude astounds me."
Another one: commenter wrote:
βA fully grown female's life is more important a fetis who has not formed consciousness yet.β
Your answer:
βThere is also the fact that an embryo has brain activity as early as 6 weeks β
That does not mean conscience. Period.
Also you ignored logical arguments like: ~StarFaerieNomad βs and only replied to ones which ones you was able to argue with. But little science or logic and you flee.
and now again:
you wrote:
"Using the "it's my body" argument as an excuse to kill off a living entity that is most certainly not you is a weak argument. "
BUT:
where a fetus is?: inside of another living orgazm.
where the fetus get the oxygen, food: from another living organism
where do the fetus defecate its faeces?: into the womb, into another living organism.
do you really think that "the another living organism" don't have the right to get rid of a parasite**?
**"1. (biology) A (generally undesirable) living organism that exists by stealing the resources produced/collected by another living organism."
I cannot just let it be, and move on, because pro-life people took away my rights. the governments, in a lot of country are pro-life and women are suffering from that. I am a woman, and I have the chance to be in this situation. and if anyone would forbid me to do an abortus, i would go to a butcher to take it out.
but i think that I, as a citizen, who pays for health insurance and taxes, I have a right to get the medical care if i need.
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To i-stamp, who decided to block me:
"Mental stability is based on the same specific criteria which identify and label every other type of disease and disorder within the medical community."
And mental stability is not based on objective criteria. Obviously you haven't taken a very thorough Psychology course.
"Just like you can't say a person is schizophrenic based on subjective criteria, you can't say they're mentally unstable by subjective criteria."
False analogy. Schizophrenics actually have a physical disorder - their brains were incorrectly formed, therefore wired differently. But who are we to say that that's "mental instability"? It's only the opinions of medical scientists that it's a form of mental instability, rather than just saying, "Oh, well, they were -born- this way, and that's just how their brain works. We shouldn't call them mentally disabled when they're being quite normal within the constraints of what their brain allows."
"By the way, just because the medical community determines something is or isn't classified as a disorder means they're making a declarative statement on whether something is harmful or helpful to a community."
False. A disorder doesn't have to have any effect on a community to be declared a disorder.
"But there is absolutely no case where legal or medical entities will violate consent laws and call it 'good.'"
Not sure about your point here.
"You aren't debating the issue, you're just coming up with more and more absurd non sequiturs to try and pin to the debate."
Nice claim, care to back it up? lol
" You can't stay on subject, you can't form cohesive rebuttals, you cry out 'fact' and 'truth' and 'false' without actually substantiating it with anything except 'because I say so.'"
lol So says the one who's doing the exact same things... but oh well.
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It's the mothers body that serves as host for the parasitic organism growing inside of her. While serving as host, the mother is subjected to a number of serious biological and psychological changes, some of which are permanent and irreversible. This same pattern characterizes a number of parasitic organisms that use the body of a host to feed and reproduce. An embryo is directly dependent upon the body of its mother for survival, a body which it effectively hijacks and debilitates for its own purposes. The relationship is purely parasitic - the body of the mother is effectively being stolen from her and mangled for almost a year.
All that's fine to enter into if you find the end result of offspring to be worth it, but to force others is absolutely amoral. It's not a child. It's not a person. It's a clump of cells and should have no more priority over the woman carrying it than a tumor or a sixth toe. Any assumption otherwise erases the considerable risk in all pregnancy and childbirth and dehumanizes the mother into a walking incubator, a slave for the production of children.
Part of responsible sex includes aborting any fetuses that the individual does not have the will to host and support.
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^This. Very well written. I agree completely.
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No. It IS my body. The fetus is invading it and the right to bodily domain means I and any other woman has the moral and legal right to remove it. It doesn't matter that the fetus has its own body, the fact that it's violating another person's bodily domain makes it moot.
The modern woman has plenty to fear from pregnancy. There is no such thing as a complication-free pregnancy. EVERY pregnant woman will suffer from something, even if it's something "small" like morning sickness. Not to mention the fact that pregnancy is very, VERY expensive. In the state of California (my state) it will cost a woman an average of 20,000 dollars just to give birth. That isn't counting the costs of neonatal care.
The woman is also running the risk of losing her job. Many, many businesses in the US will fire a woman if she becomes pregnant.
98% of abortions are not used as birth control. 98% of abortions are used when birth control has already failed and the woman has no other options.
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Thank you for showing me you ignore the laws of science and logic.
I also never claimed that there was no risk at all in pregnancy. Seriously, did you even read my description? I swear you and everyone else is just skipping down to comment and then shove words in my mouth.
And the reason women have much to fear from caring for a child is because society fails to meet the needs of women, and force her to choose between her life and the life of her child, when a false dichotomy shouldn't exist at all.
Thanks for commenting.
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Explain how I ignored the laws?
You said there was little to fear from modern pregnancy, I refuted that.
I agree on that for the most part, but there are always going to be women who simply don't want to be pregnant. Yes, society treats pregnant women like shit, and we absolutely should focus on that. But that doesn't mean there won't be any women wanting to abort in the end. Pregnancy just isn't something some women will ever want to experience.
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"It's my body" is a pretty dumb and overused argument but that doesn't change the fact the abortion should be legal. A woman should be able to decide if she want to keep the child or not because she will have to take care of this child and that's not always easy. Not everyone can provide time, money and responsibility and it's just mean towards the child. 
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There is always adoption
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There are a lot of children, do you seriously believe that all of them will have happy lives?
No, I would be unable to sleep at night if I had to give away my child like that.
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What about those with extreme phobias of pregnancy and childbirth? Just force them to go through their worst nightmares?
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Abortion is still wrong! Listen when a person has sex and gets pregnant it is not the child's fault! It's the woman's fault! Even when rape is involved it isn't the child's fault! Killing them is not the solution! How could a person even think about killed a precious baby. And yes the fetus is still a baby which is still a person. Seriously, if the woman has extreme phobias then they shouldn't have had sex in the first place.
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First, please stop calling a fetus a baby/child. Learn some biology and stop bringing
your sappy emotional b'awwwhowcanyoumurdurrbebes into this.
Secondly, you'd really rather FORCE a women to go through 9 months of hell
followed by the extremely painful process of childbirth? You'd put the rights of
a non-sentient cluster of cells that can't think or feel above the rights of
a sentient, thinking, feeling adult human being?
"It's the woman's fault! Even when rape is involved"
...did I read that wrong or are you victim blaming?
For some people, sex isn't just for reproduction, it can also be for bonding
with your partner[s] and pleasure.
You pro-lifers don't give a shit about the psychological health of the mother, it's just as important.
I bet you wouldn't care if a women killed herself because she couldn't get an abortion, pro-life my arse. More like anti-choice.
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You are very, VERY naive if you think that the primary reason someone would not want to give birth is so they don't become "a fat whale". You are also incredibly naive and misinformed if you think that doing "proper exercises and eating right" will give you little chance of complications. Give this little list a read and then slap yourself right in the face [link]
Take a particularly good look at 'Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy'.
Your attitude towards the immense suffering that would be experienced by a woman who was FORCED to give birth against her will shows a sociopathical disregard for the life of living, breathing, conscious, sentient women with choices and pasts and futures and friends and family and most of all, feelings.
I ask that you weigh up the suffering that would be felt by a fetus from abortion versus the suffering of a woman forced to give birth against her will. It will become very clear that your priorities could use a good look in the mirror. I should mention at this point that a fetus will only develop the ability to feel any pain long after the time when the vast majority of abortions are performed. It actually just doesn't suffer. At all.
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Thank you for NOT reading my disclaimer with the asterisk. It means so much that you don't read at all and then proceed to act as if I think all women should be forced to have their babies and keep them.
PS, take a nice look at this list: [link]
A lot of these problems do happen, especially if the mother is unfit and unhealthy due to lifestyle diseases, but they can be greatly lessened or even prevented by a proper diet and regular check ups. Again, this is the 21st Century. Women in developed countries are still at risk, but it is greatly lowered and many women do not face horrifying problems.
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I read the disclaimer. It failed to address The fact that forcing ANYONE who doesn't want to give birth to give birth is torture.
Okay, so diet and exercise can totally remedy the rest of the temporary and permanent side effects that women OFTEN experience because of child birth?
exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
heartburn and indigestion
constipation
dizziness and light-headedness
bloating, swelling, fluid retention
hemmorhoids
abdominal cramps
yeast infections
congested, bloody nose
acne and mild skin disorders
skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
mild to severe backache and strain
increased headaches
difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
increased urination and incontinence
bleeding gums
pica
breast pain and discharge
swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
inability to take regular medications
shortness of breath
higher blood pressure
hair loss
tendency to anemia
curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
extreme pain on delivery
hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)
stretch marks (worse in younger women)
loose skin
permanent weight gain or redistribution
abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life)
changes to breasts
varicose veins
scarring from episiotomy or c-section
other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)
Your link failed to convince me that a 'proper' diet will prevent or lessen anything.
Meanwhile, a great deal of women are unable to afford the proper care that they need to manage these common side effects. Pregnancy is very, very expensive.
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The fact that some women are unable to care for their future child due to monetary and health reasons shows that society fails to meet the needs of women, forcing her to choose between her life and the life of her child. Such a false dichotomy should not exist. Luckily, there are numerous pregnancy centers out there that give free care and help to pregnant women in need, though they are often falsely accused as being anti-choice and are given little attention and advertisement because of that. Gee, being anti-choice for giving women the right to choose both her life and the life of her child.
Oh, and abortion isn't risk free either: [link]
Also, an article on how healthy habits can improve pregnancy, and how to react early to early warning signs of problems that may occur: [link]
The fact is this: everything in life comes with a risk, even something like pregnancy. We are lucky today to have better access to medical care and better medical knowledge, even though it may not always work. And even if there is the case that requires an abortion, there is still a lot of risk and baggage with that as well. Arguing that pregnancy is a fatal, risky experience really isn't going to convince me or anyone else that it is a good reason to choose abortion (especially, as I stated, abortion is a risky affair as well).
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Not quite. Abortion is a very, very safe medical procedure.
[link]
"β’ The risk of abortion complications is minimal: Fewer than 0.3% of abortion patients experience a complication that requires hospitalization.
β’ Abortions performed in the first trimester pose virtually no long-term risk of such problems as infertility, ectopic pregnancy, spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or birth defect, and little or no risk of preterm or low-birth-weight deliveries."
[link]
"The pregnancy-associated mortality rate in the United States from 1998-2005 among women who delivered live neonates was 8.8 deaths per 100,000 live births. The mortality rate related to induced abortion was 0.6 deaths per 100,000 abortions. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion, and overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion."
The few tragic deaths that have occurred from women having a legal and safe abortion are a tiny percentage of the millions performed without a problem. It is safer than most other common medical procedures.
I agree that the comparative risks of abortion and pregnancy are not all that relevant to the debate, after-all, most women will consensually and happily carry at least one pregnancy to term in her life with full awareness of the risks involved, but I think that it would be downright medically irresponsible to deny a woman an abortion if she doesn't want to be pregnant. The suffering that that would be inflicting is so unnecessary and pointless.
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"It failed to address The fact that forcing ANYONE who doesn't want to give birth to give birth is torture."
So are you going to force nature, reality, and all babies to do jail time now?
Also, no, it's not torture. In your mere, overly-emotional and illogical -opinion- it might be, but the FACTS say otherwise. No one does a single thing for the pregnancy process to begin, continue, or end. Only nature does that. Torture is when another human being unnecessarily causes immense harm to another. No human being has any hand in the NATURAL PROCESS of pregnancy, nor birth.
Tying your sensitive little emotions to the debate will only make you look foolish and unintelligent, so I advise you not to do that.
"Pregnancy is very, very expensive."
False, pregnancy is free. The MEDICAL tests are the things that are expensive. If you're doing to whine about the medical bill, talk to the ones who are in charge of controlling the costs of those things.
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I want you to imagine a little scenario.
You have fallen pregnant. It doesn't matter what the circumstances were. You could have just not used protection, or you could have been raped.
You do not want to be pregnant. The thought of you being pregnant and going through childbirth makes you ill. It is traumatic. You might even feel that you would rather die than be pregnant and give birth. Every inch of your being is repulsed and rejects it. It doesn't matter why you don't want to be pregnant.
Now consider that abortion exists. An extremely safe (when performed under sanitary and professional conditions e.i when it's legal) medical procedure, that will stop you from being pregnant. You would give anything to stop being pregnant. Giving birth is not an option for you.
Now imagine that you are denied an abortion. You are forced, despite everything, to give birth, by people who consider your suffering to be less important than saving the unwanted embryo inside you that doesn't suffer.
Please. Tell me that people who would deny you an abortion are not causing immense unnecessary harm to you. [link]
And secondly, imagine that you are on minimum wage and having a baby. This will cost upwards of $10,00, and double that if there are complications. You will lose your job because of your pregnancy.
Please, do try taking it up with the people who are in charge of controlling those things. Give it a shot, love.
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"It is traumatic."
Being pregnant isn't traumatic. That is scientifically and factually incorrect, so your "scenario" has already failed. The emotional distress is caused by personal, subjective thoughts and feelings that can be counseled and even changed by professionals.
Your scenario is based on emotions, not on logic, science, or reason. So you would rather a woman suffer than seek out mental and emotional treatment in a time of crisis? Women who have gotten an abortion are six times more likely to commit suicide than those who have not. Do you WANT women, especially women who conceived through rape, to go through such emotional turmoil?
"And secondly, imagine that you are on minimum wage and having a baby. This will cost upwards of $10,00, and double that if there are complications. You will lose your job because of your pregnancy."
There are many women who are living in poverty and haven't had a job in years who still kept their baby. The went to Pro-Life crisis pregnancy centers and got help. Because Pro-Life people are more likely to help women in such times of crises, Pro-Abortion people just want them to kill the baby and get it over with. Which is why there's not very many, if any, Pro-Choice organizations around to help women who want to keep the baby. Also, you can't be fired from your job based on pregnancy or not; there are laws against that. Even should it happen, there are other ways to cope. Again, I cite the case of women who are living in poverty and still got by. Because they don't dehumanize people, they value all living human beings.
"Please, do try taking it up with the people who are in charge of controlling those things. Give it a shot, love."
You're the one whining about it, not me. So, you do it.
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Abortion does not increase the risk of mental illness. [link]
I'm not saying that they shouldn't seek out help, I'm saying that the trauma can be much better managed by, you know, erasing the reason for their trauma via a simple safe medical procedure. Not everyone responds to counseling. Especially someone with this level of rejection of their pregnancy. It seems medically irresponsible to not take the best cause of action for a patient.
You think crisis pregnancy centers help women? Hahahahahahahahahah.
CPC's soul goal is to convince vulnerable women, through means of outright coercion and emotional manipulation, to make a choice that isn't necessarily the best one for them. [link] [link]
Their so called help is very questionable. Their first and foremost priority is making sure that your fetus gets born no matter what. Everything else, including the health of the pregnant woman and the welfare of the born child, comes second. [link]
Planned Parenthood offer secular, non-biased pre-natal care, counseling, and support for pregnant women and new Moms. They discuss all options with you, and make sure that you are making the your own decision. They also prevent more abortions than any pro-life organization through their contraceptive services. Pro-life organizations actively try to destroy planned parenthood.
You keep believing that people still aren't fired because they get pregnant. Very cute. [link]
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"Abortion does not increase the risk of mental illness."
I specifically said suicide and in which case, yes, as a matter of fact, it does. Especially if the women had problems before the abortion, in which case, their chances of committing suicide are even higher after an abortion.
"Not everyone responds to counseling."
I took a Psychology class. 97% of people will respond to counseling and/or medicine, making your claim a very weak one.
"Especially someone with this level of rejection of their pregnancy. It seems medically irresponsible to not take the best cause of action for a patient."
Yes - so you agree that sending them into counseling, teaching them emotionally and mentally healthy coping skills to deal with how nature and reality work would be the best thing, rather than allowing than to live in a fantasy world where the easy way out is always a good thing.
"You think crisis pregnancy centers help women?"
I don't think, I know. I've volunteered, as have many others I've met. Obviously you're rather ignorant and naive; and willfully at that. I suppose this proves how little you care for women's health.
Your first link shows your lack of knowledge about a proper source. It only shows ONE case that is purely anecdotal evidence. Laughable.
To the second - too much text, didn't read all of it, but from what I did read, I didn't see any problems. Also, that's only ONE pregnancy center. Sorry, but that's not good enough. Try again.
"Their so called help is very questionable."
Your opinion, not facts. Try again.
"Their first and foremost priority is making sure that your fetus gets born no matter what."
Trying to discourage a person from committing a murder is hardly worth getting mad at them over. Unless you think it's perfectly okay to encourage the intentional termination of an innocent human being?
"Everything else, including the health of the pregnant woman and the welfare of the born child, comes second."
You use a link with a ".com" as a resource? Are you kidding me?
To refute the source: it's laughable. It's not credible in the least. It shows little to no evidence or facts to back up their claims. It's extremely pathetic. Try again.
"Planned Parenthood offer secular, non-biased pre-natal care, counseling, and support for pregnant women and new Moms."
LOL! Calling it a non-biased organization when it promotes abortion and earns millions on it every year... that's the most laughable, incorrect claim you've made yet.
"They discuss all options with you, and make sure that you are making the your own decision."
Even more LOLz.
"They also prevent more abortions than any pro-life organization through their contraceptive services."
And you provide no legitimate facts to back up that claim... I'm starting to see a trend with you.
"Pro-life organizations actively try to destroy planned parenthood."
Why not? Planned Parenthood profits off murder as far as they are concerned, and they're quite racist. 1 in every 2 African-American pregnancies end in abortion. blackgenocide.org.
"You keep believing that people still aren't fired because they get pregnant. Very cute."
False. Check your reading comprehension skills. I said that there are laws against that. And your citation is, again, laughably pathetic.
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You volunteered at a CPC? Eeeeew
Okay, maybe I should just link you to the wikipedia article. Read the whole thing. It's pretty damn incriminating. [link]
As for my sources, and how laughable and pathetic they are, you have literally only linked me to one source. And that source is blackgenocide.com. A disgusting, racist, homophobic(not that it seems you would have a problem with that) joke of a website. And you are making a lot of outrageous claims that really need something to back them up. Something from a class you took it not a source. I guess it's because the only places that will back up your information are anti-abortion sites. I've seen it all before.
Every woman with access to affordable and reliable birth control is a woman who won't get an abortion. PP provides about 3,800,000 women with (sometimes free) birth control each year. It is 35% of their services (compared to abortion, which is 3%.)
Access to birth control is absolutely, totally, the best way to prevent abortions. [link] Who knows, maybe CPCs would offer free birth control if they were legitimate registered medical clinics. Okay probably not.
I think that the pro-life obsession with ending abortion rather than ending unintended pregnancy is very, very telling of their feelings about the welfare of women. Really, you and I just want the same thing. It's just that going pro-choice is the better way to do it.
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"You volunteered at a CPC? Eeeeew"
Ah, so you -are- overly-emotional, closed-minded, and biased, and perhaps childish as well. I see. So you don't care about helping others in need?
Wikipedia is not a reliable source. And checked out some of the things it cites, also not credible due to a wide variety of flaws. News articles, for example, are not research sources.
"As for my sources, and how laughable and pathetic they are, you have literally only linked me to one source."
So?
"A disgusting, racist, homophobic(not that it seems you would have a problem with that) joke of a website. "
Is this a childish tantrum I see, spewing overly-emotional, untrue personal opinions about something? It's not racist if it's true, for one thing. And so you think African-Americans explaining how white people are slaughtering them is racist? How pathetic is your accusation?
I can no longer take you seriously. You're obviously too emotionally immature, and pathetically closed-minded and biased to have anything that resembles an intelligent discussion.
Not gonna read the rest of it, not interested.
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Aha. The old "I'm not going to listen to you lalalalalalalalalaal not listening I win argument by default" trick. You are clearly on the mature high ground from me.
Well if you're not going to read this I guess I can pretty much say whatever I want. And since you've written me off as overly emotional and childish and closed-minded and pathetic and immature whoooaaa calm those adjectives down honey, I guess I can send you this lovely article that will explain why you are diametrically opposed to the things that will best help the cause of ending abortion. [link]
You could read it, or you could continue to misinform women about serious medical choices to further your cause. Choices, choices, choices.
Also watch this gif. It's HILARIOUS. [link]
toodaloo.
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I like you, I'm going to watch you now <3
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True that.
It's clear that a fetus of a human will become a human being. I hope it's only a matter of time before the fundamental rights are also applied to them.
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This!
Its a stupid argument, what about a life that was killed? But that does not matter, its "your body".
Some people say its not counted beacuse the sprit of the child comes when they are born. There is no proof of that happening, so thats weak too. Not saying it should be illigal, just saying its sick.
Yes, if it was a rape baby, insect or if it was sick, thats a valid excuse. But if you got it out just beacuse "you did not want it" is horrible.
PS I hate the stamps that say "I prefer to be dead than be a rape baby" did the people that made the stamp ever think that SOME MOTHERS KEPT THIER RAPE BABY?!?
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Thank you for making this. It's so true. Each of us has our own DNA, no matter how tiny it is.
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And a woman is more important than a fetus
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Just because you feel it's a week argument doesn't change the fact that I will NEVER consent to another human being attaching him/herself to any part of my body and giving me a plethora of health risks. Doesn't matter if it's a fully formed human adult or an itty-bitty clump of cells with a human genetic code.
So sure. It may have it's own body, but it doesn't give it the right to use mine without permission. Feel free to be pro-life, but I will STILL have an abortion if I get pregnant. Your personal views won't change my rights.
(Oh, and 100% of abortions are birth control. Because abortion IS birth control, no matter the reason for it.)
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"Just because you feel it's a week argument doesn't change the fact that I will NEVER consent to another human being attaching him/herself to any part of my body and giving me a plethora of health risks."
*weak
Then don't have sex, ever, or get your tubes tied. I'm sorry that you're such a hate-filled individual, but nature and reality really don't care what little ole you calls a so called "right" nor does it care about little ole you's consent. If you want to whine about how nature and reality works, you're going to have a very difficult time in life, sweetie.
"It may have it's own body, but it doesn't give it the right to use mine without permission."
Did the fetus ask to use your body? No. It's kind of incapable. So if you find a mute toddler taking crackers from your cupboard without asking, are you going to kill them, too?
"Your personal views won't change my rights."
Murdering an innocent human being is never a right. Sorry, but we care about ALL human beings. I'm sorry you'd prefer to cherry-pick who you do and do not care about.
Also, it's not a right. Good job making things up, though.
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I'm lying to myself about how nature works? Nah, abortions are available to me, and I'm going to make use of that should the need arise. You're actually being pretty unrealistic about the whole situation. Nature placed me in a lucky position where I can terminate a pregnancy should I chose, so how am I going to have a hard time in life when you can't accept that reality?
And guess what, sweetie. I have a boyfriend. Should things go right in my relationship, that's going to mean that I'm going to have sex. That's just a NATURAL part of being in a relationship. And guess what else? I want my tubes tied. I've tried. But guess what the doctors told me? "Lol, no, you're not close enough to menopause, and you don't have any kids yet." Uh, I don't WANT children. I cannot LOVE a child. I would be a terrible mother.
So your "DON'T HAVE SEX AND DON'T HAVE YOUR TUBES TIED" are not really going to work here.
And lol, "Lil ole me". So I can already tell that you wouldn't value me as a complete human being who is already established in life. As far as your concerned, I'm just an incubator, or a life support machine. My desires for my life don't mean shit, huh?
And abortions aren't murder. They kill a human clump of cells. Not a human being. That zygote/fetus/human does NOT have what makes it a sentient human being until it is into the 23rd week. (Y'know, a complete human brain.) Abortions here in the U.S. are illegal at that point, unless the mother's life is in danger. Care to guess why that is?
Wanna try again? I have heard all pro-life arguments, and they have all been debunked.
It is a right. Roe VS. Wade says so.
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