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RobinRone — Forget the Hero Journey - Women want an Antagonist
Published: 2012-05-10 22:07:23 +0000 UTC; Views: 2478; Favourites: 35; Downloads: 10
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Women are going loco for Loki in the latest Avenger’s film, myself among them. While it would be easy to dismiss this wildfire of obsession as yet another handsome bad-boy, I think the attraction runs deeper than just attention to a pretty face.I am not drawn to Loki by his looks — no disrespect meant to the fine Tom Hiddleston — but what I find far more compelling than his appearance is his nuanced portrayal of character whose story resonates so strongly with my own.
It has long been thought that the masculine hero’s journey is a miss-match when it comes to a woman’s experience of life. However, it was not until I saw the Avengers that it occurred to me — perhaps the female journey to identity does not lie in the tales of our culture’s heroes, but of their villains.
In the article linked below, I delve into two Antagonist tales from recent films – Loki, from Marvel’s Thor and Avengers, and the Megamind from the eponymous film by Dreamworks – comparing them to my own personal experiences. While I acknowledge that my perspective may not be shared by everyone, I hope that others can join me in exploring this idea with their own experiences and parallels.
SPOILER WARNING: This article contains some mild spoilers (mostly quotes) on Marvel’s Thor & Avengers, major spoilers on Dreamwork’s Megamind, and details from Shakespeare’s “Taming of the Shrew”.
READ THE REST OF THE ARTICLE HERE!
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Comments: 27
Actually, this is still a Hero's journey...only the Hero fails on some part of that journey and turns to the dark side.
That's why these characters are called "Tragic Heroes"
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In terms of broadly applying the structure of Joseph Campbell's monomyth/Hero's Journey, I agree that the steps could be stretched to match the cycle that I'm exploring. That's the neat thing about that structure, that it can be adapted to a very large amount of stories and still fit most of the time. Whether or not the villains I've described fit in that literary structure is not really what I'm exploring. More the societal responses to a villain going through those steps, and the differences between how heroes are commonly depicted when going through that structure, vs villains.
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Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
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My dear, I must applaud you [claps]. Well done.
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Why thank you so much! I still want to write an addendum to this article having seen more examples of the Antagonist Tale. Wreck it Ralph in particular!
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Indeed, women often identify with villains (or in Loki's case, the severely damaged and unhinged vengeful character). Batman and Iron Man share a couple of these normally antagonistic traits as well.. making them my favorite heroes/antiheroes. All in all I don't think we can label Loki as a 'villain' completely, he did flatten Manhattan and almost brought an alien invasion but, he's more of a damaged brilliant mind. Criminally insane antagonist fits a little better or my inner fangirl is showing.
Another character you might want to look into is Scud from Blade 2. Granted he's a good person underneath it all, he betrays the hero and gets blown up. His struggle for safety and control over his life pushes him into all kinds of mayhem and many women seem to fall for the character beyond the actors physical appeal. The character, having been dealt a hideous hand by life, is so broken, if not brainwashed, that I can only compare him to the fanfiction version many fans create for Loki. Hopeless, beaten, complete lack of trust in himself and others, hateful of society and blind to any 'good' or help.
As an outcast and female identify very well with the antagonists (namely Loki), your article has not only given me personal calm and hope but helped me write better antagonists, get into Loki's head a little better and write one kick-ass anti-hero to save his ass in the last moment. (yes that was a fanfic spoiler) By the way, you've got my dream job: Comic-book creator.
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So glad my article served such a good purpose! The antagonist journey is still one that I revisit periodically, and I'm always curious to find new examples of it. Thank you very much for the Scud reference. I will have to track down a copy of Blade 2!
(And I don't have the dream job yet! Right now, it's day-job that funds job-to-hopefully-one-day-be-day-job...but maybe after I put in ten years of hard work, my little business will find its wings. 
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You're doing what you love, that's already a dream job.
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I've been waiting to reply to this article for weeks, and I still don't know what to say except thank you: you've said a lot of things I have wanted to say for a long time better than I ever could.
It's really humbling to discover that one of your heroes is so like you-- I live in a toxic household, I have perfectionistic and overloading issues, and I was (still am) the outcast to many people. I can't wait until the days when I can be brave or free enough to move on as you have. Thank you very much for sharing this and giving me a new way to think about my situation. Your success and the people you now know, online or in person, give me hope for me and my small circle of trustworthy people.
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I don't have words to express how honored and humbled I am by your incredibly kind words. I still am not done with my journey. I have so much to learn and figure out. I'm very fortunate to have found people that love me without strings attached, that I can trust to be honest, open communicators, and that support my efforts to grow as a person. I'm so glad to hear that you also have a circle of trustworthy people. That alone can make so many amazing things possible. If I can be included in that circle, even in the tiny way that I am, that is the greatest thing I could ever be a part of. Thank you. Keep striving for you. You'll find your way!!
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After reading your article, I skimmed trough the TV-tropes examples of this type of character and I think you nailed it.
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I'm glad you enjoyed the article!! And thank you very much for the link. I was curious about other examples of this type of antagonist. The only other one that was coming to mind was Elphaba from Wicked. Neat to see others!
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(didn't feel up to mucking around with Tumblr so my response is here)
You know when you're reading something and it all just clicks into place? Yeah. That happened to me a few minutes ago when I was reading this thing. You're brilliant.
Something that struck me particularly hard was the comment about women being expected to be "orbital moons" who are focused on "relationships and the desires of their parents". And it's funny, but I think it's a big reason I have so much trouble relating to female characters in stories, because oftentimes they fill a role like this. They're the love interest, or "the Chick" in the five-man band, or the mother, and no matter how much I like the character or how well they're portrayed, I just can't connect with the emotional supporter person. Female villains, on the other hand... well I've got quite a few of those that strike a chord with me, along with the males.
Ever since I was a kid, I've known there was something a little... dysfunctional about me. Bursting into tears or screaming was my first response to stressful situations, and sometimes it felt there was nothing I could do to keep myself from doing it no matter how much effort was applied; some of my teachers suggested placement in the "emotionally disturbed" class. Interacting with unfamiliar people became difficult once I got old enough to recognize my almost painful social awkwardness (I sat with the same people at lunch for seven years before finally feeling comfortable enough to call them friends). I was so oblivious to social things that it wasn't until I graduated high school that I found out a fellow student there had hated my guts for some stupid reason. It's not important, but my parents and I are fairly sure I've got a mild case of Asperger's (high-functioning autism, whatever they're calling it these days).
Anyways, mentally putting myself in the role of emotional support or even "socially savvy average teenage girl who can kick butt somehow" was and still is laughable. I've always leaned toward either the awkward hero types (who, correct me if I'm wrong, have a tendency to be male) or villains who for whatever reason just don't care about that stupid crap anymore. And now I think I know why. So... thanks.
*On a completely unrelated note, when you capitalized Engineer in your article, this was what came to mind because I'm obsessed with this darn game: [link] *
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I'm glad that my article gave you so much to think about. It was sorta a coagulation of a whole bunch of thoughts and feelings that I've been trying to figure out for years. Suddenly they just...coalesced. It seemed important to share, and it looks like a lot of people can relate to the result. I hope that it is helpful to others to read as it was helpful to me to write!
Thank you so much for sharing your own story. It's amazing how everyone has such different experiences, but so many of us can find common ground in the feelings.
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Asperger, such an insulting term. Why is it society has to name anything different as a disorder. 'Oh it's not her fault she's just got aspergis'. I mean come on, we are different but STOP CALING ME A FRAKING DISORDER.
I am a human being, not some stupid disorder you use so that your stinkin society can cope with the fact that not everyone is a prim and proper as you make it to be. Instead of giving us pills, talking to us like we're mentaly retarded why not actually take the time to know us! We are different, yes, you got a fraking problem with that? Obviously you do because you gave us a name, aspergis.
If I didn't love my family so much, I would be long gone. I hide myself, MY REAL SELF, behind a farcade. There's three sides to me, the actual me, the 'society' me, and the 'study' me. I live three different lives, and sometimes it wears me down.
I respect my family, I respect the teachers, I respect those older then me, so why do I have to put up with this? Why should I have to hide myself in the internet just to stay sane? Honestly, if I didn't have the internet and video games I would have had a nervous breakdown long ago.
Teased my entire life, I finally found closure because I have a SINGLE place I can express myself. I care too much about my family to act like I want to, shout my objections, it's almost become second nature.
I spent years without a single person to talk to, without the net I wouldn't probably have one today. She is the one person I can act however I want around and she won't care because she acts the same way. We cheer each other up, and have fun sometimes. We don't always see eye to eye but if I didn't have her I would be so lonely.
I have always wondered why I loved Antagonists. It's true, my favorite shows are ones that have anti-heroes.
I can connect with you man, I've been 'diagnosed' with aspergis. Such an insulting word, whenever they mention it I want to scream and tell them to stop naming me like I'm a disease. But I won't...I love my family too much for that, even if I'm drowing in it.
18, it's time for me to leave the nest, I'm too big for my stuff to fit anymore, my mother doesn't want me to go. University is my only real option to get into the course I want. A job that doesn't feel like a job, I've finally found it. I know what I want to do, but I'm struggling to get the grades in the subjets not relating to it. There are other options, but I just want to follow my dream. The problem, my dream is more long term then simply doing a comic or writing a short story. It involves learning the course, and then hoping they actually let me work there. I want to work for Sony, I want to make games for the Playstation. I want to travel, I want to see more of the world then this tourist town I live in. I love my family....But I have to follow the path I've been waiting for to come along.
Alright, I'm done talking, to put it in one sentence: I can completely connect with you both. (Bug and Rhone)
Nice to know there are people out there that have similar view to me.
I just wish there was someone closer to home who I could hang out with outside the internet. However, I'm not going to look the gift horse in the mouth.
Ps: XD I watched megamind like 5 times before I finally got over it.(Bought the CD) Even now I could very easily watch it again, even if it might make me cringe at parts. (Oh the clice XD)
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That sounds like a lot to carry! I hope one day you can feel genuinely yourself both on- AND off-line!
Good luck leaving the nest!! You can do it! It was a huge transition for me, but I'm really glad I got away from my family to learn who I was independent of them.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence. Xd I know one thing, I'm very shy in some ways. I don't want to bother my family with my own wants, but eventually it's going to have to happen.
There's still time, my grades are probably not going to be enough for the atar so my biggest hope is early entry.
Thanks again, it's good to know there are others out there who have faced a similar problem and come out on top.
You still talk to them don't you? Your family?
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No. Unfortunately I don't. My family could not respect my decisions or the changes I was making in my life. They took everything I did for myself as an attack or rejection. It got to the point where I had a choice: I could keep changing myself into somebody I didn't want to be for their sake, or I could embrace my own identity and pursue my own dreams.
I regret the necessity of it, but I don't regret the decision. I hope one day we can start over as equals. Nobody is perfect, but until we can respect each other, we can't have a healthy relationship.
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That's harsh. I hope I don't have to do that because it might kill me...
Still I can understand that. I always treat people how they treat me. If they act mean, then that is what they will get back. I normally act polite to test the waters. I guess thats how I am.
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Everybody has different situations and has to make the best call they can. Separating myself from my family is what I felt the best call was, and I still believe that to be true.
You have to find your own way and your own path -- one that works for who you are! I hope it brings you happiness!
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I don't mind the label so much, but then I've never been properly diagnosed. I might not actually be that way... but yeah, represent yo. Or something. xD
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I'm definitely reading this after supper then getting back to you about it. It intrigues me.
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