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TheRawr000000 — Enough with Mary Sues
Published: 2010-10-28 04:11:05 +0000 UTC; Views: 3469; Favourites: 97; Downloads: 24
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I once proudly made fun of Mary Sues and Gary Stus, making parodies and forcing my characters into not turning into a dreaded Sue. Litmus tests were my favorite thing. But I've realized something: Mary Sues aren't doing ANYONE any harm. Many characters in published books qualify as that. But I'm done with that term now.
On one website, if you give your character blond hair and blue eyes, or black hair and green eyes, you just made a mary sue.
Well, I'm sick of this. There is no longer such a thing as a mary sue / gary stu to me. They're JUST CHARACTERS. Listen, here's what I want you to do, hun. Figure out your favorite character from a book/movie/etc. Now go take a litmus test for them. Chances are, they're a mary sue/gary stu. But you found them interesting, did you not? EXACTLY.
Now, do this for me, too. Answer honestly, and take a litmus test for yourself. In all likelyhood, you'll be considered a sue.
So, here's what I've come up with. Stop complaining about sues. They aren't hurting you, unless this is a roleplay. In that case, I've made some quick guidlines for RPG characters. But let people have their fun. If they're doing one of the following, then by all means, call them out on it and try to help, but don't pull out the sue card and flame them.
ARE THEY POWERPLAYING? Are they controlling other's characters? NOT like this, "Listen, soldier, I'm one rank higher than you, so you shut up and do what I say." That's a character flaw. They take advantage of people because they have power. The following is bad, however. "He's so handsome, all women in the room sigh and fall in love with him, EVEN YOUR CHARACTER!"
ARE THEY GODMODING? Let's say there's a fight between two characters. You're allowing your character to take hits, and your character is tiring, but the opponent has refused to be hit and hasn't even begun to sweat. Oh, and the Big Bad Guy? They killed him/her with a flick of the wrist.
ARE THEY BENDING THE RULES OF THE UNIVERSE? As in, a character in a highschool roleplay casting spells and flying. Plus, their hair is naturally rainbow. Even though this is impossible in the set universe.
^If they aren't doing any of the above, they aren't doing any harm.
So, even if it annoys you ridiculously, let the person write that story about a beautiful elf with dead parents who's forced to be an assassin and every prince falls in love with her. It's their story, they can write what they want.
Another thing I hate with a fiery passion,"That character is a sue. Stop writing this story and delete it." YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO WRITE AND WHAT NOT TO. You aren't the ruler of literature and characters. So WHAT if they write a fic about a pokemon trainer who catches Arceus? It's not hurting you. And believe it or not, a "mary sue" can be pretty dang interesting.
So, in summary: If the person is RPing, unless they're PPing, Godmoding, or bending the rules of the universe, leave them be. If it's their character, in their story, get off your high horse and face the idea that maybe, maybe you should leave them be. Because they aren't hurting you.
/rant. So, flame me if you want, call my characters sues, whatever. I'm done with sues. I'm only bossing people around when I complain about what a character should and shouldn't be. And I don't like bossing people around. So I'm done with it.
I'm not targeting anyone specific, here. Any similarities are completely unintended. And I'll be happy to discuss this with you if you can be mature. And if you read all this and aren't about to flame me, then, my friend, have a cookie.
And I realize this stamp is ugly. But I was more focused on making a point. 
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Comments: 89
Yep. It's what people say when they're mad about something else, and can't think of a better way to insult your OCs, lol. 
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I agree. Not all sues are bad (like Harry Potter, for example).
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I disagree that Harry Potter is sue (or stu more appropriately); he definitely had flaws, like how he was prone to angst and depression or how he could be a real jerk to his friends. It wasn't like he was some all-powerful wizard either; he was a teenage boy who was marked as "the chosen one" and the "boy who lived" even though he didn't want to be. Sure, he was brave (to the point of being incredibly reckless) but he survived mostly because he was lucky and because of the help, love, and intelligence of his best friends Ron and Hermione and his mother's love. The truth is, the only reason Harry was able to do what he did was because of his friends, mother and professors; if he were a Stu he wouldn't have needed them or taken 7 years to kill Voldemort because he would've been so powerful he could've destroyed Voldemort immediately all on his own. Harry Potter (along with many other great characters) are proof that being powerful and special doesn't make a character a Sue/Stu. The problem is that I don't think people really understand what a Sue/Stu really is and will label just about any reason.
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He's not a radical stu, but still has some traits of one. Sues that don't have any flaws at all and achieve everything without effort are the bad ones, but they're rare.
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Yeah. Some Mary Sues can be good so that I don't notice. Rosalina for example. She's a Sue but I still like her.
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Mary Sues are not interesting. Having every personality trait in the book and yet having no realistic flaws or shortcomings whatsoever is not interesting. Having a tragic backstory solely for the sake of teenage angst is not interesting. Trying to be edgy by cutting yourself and hating everyone is not interesting. Having every character in the canon love everything about you with no reason or explanation is not interesting. Doing whatever you want without any consequences is not interesting. Having so much control and power over the story, that the narrative no longer has any conflict or tension is not interesting. None of those are interesting.... THEY ARE FUCKING CLICHE!!!! There is a reason why people hate Mary Sues so much!!! They are so perfect that the narrative is no longer engaging, and the readers are annoyed instead of invested! Do you really think films like How To Train Your Dragon, Paranorman, Kung Fu Panda, or Big Hero 6 would have been more interesting if all of the protagonist were overpowered, perfect yet angsty Mary Sues/Gary Stus? HELL NO!!! They don't have absolute power, they aren't automatically loved by everyone, they aren't perfect in every way, and there significant physical, mental and emotional obstacles that they must overcome, and that is why they and their narratives are interesting. You can relate to and empathize with these characters, and you feel for every emotion that they're going through, and every conflict they endure. With Mary Sues/ Gary Stus, you can't have any relation because these characters are completely perfect to the point where you no longer have tension or emotional depth in the narrative, or have tension and emotional depth that is highly unrealistic and/or cliché. By saying we should all stop hating Mary Sues, you are basically saying that it is completely okay to create clichéd garbage, and we are all horrible people for wanting something of actual quality. You guys are basically acting like Uwe Boll; creating a lack-luster, unoriginal product, and then getting pissed off when someone calls you out on your blatant mediocrity.
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what's sad is that you wasted your time ranting about characters
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I'm against true Mary-Sues/Gary-Stus because they're boring, shallow and uninteresting. However, there are so many reasons characters are criticized for being Mary-Sues/Gary-Stus and most of them are ridiculous. Plus, just criticizing a character for being Mary-Sue/Gary Stu isn't going to help someone improve their characters or stories; it's not constructive criticism, it's just useless name calling. Honestly, if someone called one of my characters a Mary-Sue/Gary-Stu I wouldn't care or even be offended because it's not helpful at all. Plus, I put a lot of thought into my characters and story/art ideas; sure, they can always be improved and better developed but just labeling my character a Mary-Sue/Gary Stu is an insult to all the work and thought I put into them because someone couldn't even bother to put thought or effort into their feedback. Now, if someone has actual constructive criticism or some advice on how to improve my characters, stories or artwork then I might just listen to them and appreciate their input. Besides, most of the time, a Mary-Sue/Gary-Stu is harmless; their just for fun most of the time anyway unless they're forcing their characters and characters' actions on you (like in a role-play.)
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This is a beautiful comment! 
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THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING!
I have a "mary sue" and I really don't care what people think.
Mary sue is also a very sexist term, tbh.
So what if she's a perfect female character? If guys can be "perfect'" than so can girls!!
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Gary Stu is the male equivalent of a Mary Sue but I agree, females are accused of being Mary-Sues far more often than males and that's unfair and sexist. I guess as long as you have fun creating and writing about your character and don't care than why should it matter? On the other hand, if she's so perfect that's she's boring, annoying and unbelievable you might want to work on developing her more if you want other people to like and take her seriously. Chances are since you put Mary Sue in quotes, she's probably not really a Mary Sue and is only called that for stupid reasons.
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What's important is having an interesting character. A true Mary Sue/Marty Stu is a character that's so perfect that they're boring and annoying. I don't like characters like that and it's really not difficult to not make a character like that. Just because a character is talented, has magical abilities, is pretty "the chosen one" or whatever doesn't make them a Mary Sue/Marty Stu. However, if they have traits like magical powers or superhuman abilities that makes them stand out then this needs to be explained. I don't like reading about, watching a character that has these sorts of traits without an explanation, especially if it's unique to the character; for example superheroes always have an explanation of why they have such unusual powers (radioactive spider bite, an alien species from another planet, genetic mutations etc.) A character being a persona/fursona to represent the creator (like my persona Rababco) or who has some traits of the creator doesn't make someone a Mary Sue, Marty Stu either, though characters should be varied and shouldn't have all the same traits or they get boring. Giving a character a tragic past doesn't make them a Mary Sue/Marty Stu either but it should being important to their character development and shouldn't just be to make everyone feel sorry for them or whatever. Point is, telling someone their character is a Mary Sue/Marty Stu isn't going help the creator improve because it doesn't give constructive criticism or new ideas.
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yay! I'm not the only person who thinks this! I thought I was the only one!
I really hate the term "Mary Sue". According to definition, a Mary sue is a character who is completely perfect and is loved and adored by everyone. These days, a Mary sue is anyone who is pretty, strong, artistic, or smart. I don't get it. If people only made characters who were just like your average day people, then they'd be boring.
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I almost always start my characters out as Mary sues and Gary Stu's, then I examine them and trim them down and start to cut at ehwt's bad, keep what's good. Then I add weaknesses and what they can't do, I've been accused of mary sues and such many times because I made a species of my own ._.
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I actually have the same opinion. Mary-Sues are OK in books, TV shows, or movies. In my opinion, America from Hetalia is a little bit of a Mary-Sue. But they're completely not OK in RPing. Someone in the first RP I ever made (Which was about Pokemon) godmodded all the time, but I didn't know about Mary-Sues and godmodding at the time, so unfortunately they didn't get banned. 
Sorry, I sometimes end up going on about something completely offtopic.
By the way, thanks for the cookie. :3
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Instead of trashing them, they should offer legitimate suggestions. A little constructive criticism can do wonders.
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True, that's one of the things I find most annoying about accusing someone's character for being a Mary-Sue/Gary Stu is that it's completely useless and insulting. It doesn't help them improve or inspire them. It's far more helpful to tell them that their character should have more flaws and maybe even give some suggestions or to ask them questions about their character so it makes them think of new explanations of why their character is the way they are, like why they have pink hair, where they got their powers or how their past effects them.
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It's about time. Thank you so much for making this stamp!
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Uh...I have never found a stu interesting. So yeah...and the thing is, I tell people their stories are bad so they can improve. It's more for their sake than mine. And I've taken the litmus test for my favorite characters (The Joker, Hush, Tarble, Yajirobe, The Ice King, ect) and they barely even broke 10 points. :/
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And I'm not a sue myself :/
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YES!
I am so tire the hate stamps. :I hate ur fan character" "u r a mary sue" "I hate ur mary sue"
Honestly, those guys need to lighten up!
The character r FICTION for a reason.
They r not real.
Chill out guys.
The thing about that mary sue test is the test doesn't cover the depths of the characters it doesn't ask about the characters little quircks & stuff so really it's useless.
I'm so happy you made this stamp.
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WHY HAVE I NOT FAVOURITED THIS?
Seriously I am sick and tired of hearing " ITS A MARY SUE THAT CHARACTER DOES NOT WANT YOUR MARY SUE"
Im also sick and fuckin tired of people who cant let someone else do what they want with a fanfiction/artwork and decide weither or not they are worthy of making one by finding out their age!
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woah... I guess in real life im a mary sue cuz I has blonde hair and blue eyes >_>
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Not really. If you had super magical powers and the ability to sprout wings and call animals to be your bestest-estest-ellywellynestest-friends; You'd be a Mary-Sue ~ (I don't know why I just said that, but yeah. Tryin' to prove a point. ;_; )
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I know what a mary-sue is, but someone said that
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I agree that "Mary Sue" has become an overused and pretty much meaningless term. The Litmus tests are never hugely accurate and there will always be certain aspects of a character that they don't account for.
There is such thing as an unrealistic or bad character, though. Some characters make no sense in the universe they're supposed to be in or have very cliched, bland personalities. If someone gives me critique on a character, I remind myself that it's just one person's opinion, but do look to see if there's anything I can do to make the character more believable.
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I completely agree. I have been getting flamers attacking me for one of my characters being a "marty-stu" and I find that and any related term to be an insult.
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My OC was called Mary-Sue a lot of times, just because she had powers, and she was a friend from the character I love.
man, I can imagine their faces when I told them she paired with another character I invented long ago for the history.
And a friend I had just doesn´t stop to tell that my original character from my original manga was a Stu, un til I said her his other defects.
Because...Since when being ungry always is not a defect?
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No but overly idealized and overpowered is. And encouraging people who create these two dimensional characters DOESN'T help them as writers. People need to stop using the term "mary-sue" but that doesn't mean the harsh critiques aren't warranted.
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If someone seriously wants to be a writer, or if they're just looking to improve, giving them advice on three-dimensional characters is necessary. However, saying something like, "Your OC is a Sue, get rid of them" is not going to help in the slightest. If they're going to give a harsh critique of a character, they can do a much better job than that. Criticism should be constructive, not only pointing out what they did wrong, but how to fix it, and also pointing out what they did right. Sometimes, a critique is warranted, but then again, sometimes it's not.
Quite frankly, it's all how the character is written. Sure, you can say they have flaws, but they need to show up in the writing. Then again, I've seen characters with all these ridiculous qualities out the wazoo written well. I mean, look at Harry Potter. Chosen one, blah blah, dead parents, blah blah, but a ton of people liked his character. If they didn't, J.K. Rowling wouldn't be as rich as she is. Let's say Harry is a Stu for a minute here. So? He sure as heck worked out for Rowling. Also, like it or not, almost every interesting main character is going to have a few Sueish qualities. I'm much more likely to read a book about a Chosen One trying to fight off the forces of darkness than a story about a bigoted, basement dwelling jerk who's uglier than a pile of poo who lives a completely normal and boring life. So, Sueish qualities here and there can actually make a character more interesting, and sometimes it's just necessary for the story.
If someone is writing seriously, and their character actually is flat and uninteresting, by all means, tell them how to make their characters interesting and real. But sometimes, people write for fun, have career plans in an unrelated sector all together, and just want to have some good ol' fashioned wish fulfillment. Or maybe they don't even care about wish fulfillment, they just want to play out a little idea they had floating in their head. Anyways, some people don't write seriously and don't care if their characters are flat. Some fanfiction writers use fanfiction as practice, but some just want a break from serious writing. And as I've said before, Mary Sue is insanely overused and is tagged on even the most interesting of characters. So, if they're serious and want to improve, go ahead and constructive critique your heart out. If they don't really care, I don't see how they're hurting anybody. I think I'm babbling and repeating myself at this point, I'm going to quit talking for now.
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Good points. I hate it mostly where if the oc's parents are dead that is a sign of a mary sue...how? I even heard a stupid question like 'Is your OC the same gender as you?'...What? What does that have to do with mary sues? The mary sue parodies have gotten really annoying too don't ya think? I also,always try to keep the canon characters personality's the same too
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Yup. I think the same gender thing was supposed to be a check for "self-inserts", but I think that's getting quite a bit ridiculous. X)
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Very isn't it? XD I think I'll quit that anti mary sue's club thing...all there is,is just a bunch of mary sue parodies and let me tell ya: It gets REALLY annoying after awhile ><
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Good point.
I've actually seen one case in which a person called a OC a Mary-Sue for only minor reasons and reasons that would be considered an anti-sue trait.
Then I read further into their comment and it immediately sounded like Unwarranted Self-Importance.
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THANK YOU, A THOUSAND TIMES THANK YOU!!!!
I found one test where if your OC had a mental disability, it made them a mary sue. That made me so mad because I myself have ADHD.
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...will you marry me? Finally, someone gets it! 
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I, a real person, scored higher than my own fictional characters. I'm still confused.
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Did u really?
My friend was border line marty stu.
Obviously there is somthig wrong with that test.
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Haha yeah... I tried to get one of my friends to take it, but she wasn't taking it seriously and we got bored halfway through. I did find one pretty good test once, though, so not all the tests are that bad. Don't remember what I made on it, but it was actually somewhat informative, rather than just a number score, and it didn't focus on "do they play flute?" or "are they a blonde chick?".
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That's such a dumb question. "R they a blonde chick?" that test just made my Grandma, my Mom, & I as Mary sues.
What does gender/hair color half to do with anything
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Well that particular one was hypothetical. Several ask if they have unusual hair or eye colors, though. And you get points for playing any instrument, and then even more if it's flute, piano, or guitar. I have no idea why flute's on there, but piano and guitar are really common for people to play in the real world, therefore if your character plays one of those, they're too special and different... :/
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Well, I agree with this, mostly because in a sense, all OCs can have a couple more Sue/Stu points, for the following reasons:
-If they were born in-universe, by applying the common ancestor theory, they have been related to ALL the canon characters, their ancestors, and the ancestors of their ancestors, all along.
-If they cross the fourth wall and are aware they're fictional, that gives them one special, unique power: the power to cross the border between reality and fiction at free will, which no other character has.
The real problem, though, is bad writing, wish-fulfilling and shallowness of the character itself. There's nothing wrong with having an intentional, well-written and deconstructed Mary Sue/Marty Stu, as some of our canon characters can be whether we want to admit it or not.
So yeah, I've learned a lot from this stamp alone. I'll never see this kind of characters the same way again...
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Making fun of ridiculousness sues is fun, but it can some times be taken too far into a witch (or sue) hunt. I think that people in general tend to over do it. This is probably the first stamp i have seen eith this particular message! way to go!!
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