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Tzoli β€” Viribus Unitis Preliminary Novotny's Proposal

#austro #battleship #class #design #hungarian #kriegsmarine #kuk #navy #warship #unitis #viribus
Published: 2017-08-11 19:41:15 +0000 UTC; Views: 8387; Favourites: 74; Downloads: 195
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Description The history of the Austro-Hungarian Dual Monarchy's first and only Dreadnought battleships are a rather interesting and intriguing one!

The first formal meeting of new battleships for the Austro-Hungarian Navy was held on May 7th, 1908 by the MTK (Marinetechnische Komitee - Naval Technical Committee), Pola / Vienna the meeting was led by Rudolf von Montecuccoli degli Erri, and the official design contest was issued on July 6th, 1908 with the following requirements:
Displacement up to 20,000 tons,
8x 30,5cm Main Guns all on the centreline,
19 and 10cm medium and light guns,
armour belt of 230mm at the waterline and 250mm thickness of the barbettes.

In addition to Popper, two engineers, Franz Pitzinger and Theodor Novotny, presented their own drawings in the spring of 1910 when the original deadline expired. At this point, however, the detailed design of the Popper Plans was completed, and in November of last year, the contract was signed with STT for the construction of two ships. The designs of Pitzinger and Novotny were shoved to the depths of the archives, but they received cash compensation for their work.

Theodor Novotny's proposal shows some interesting design choices. The hull is flush deck but oval shaped resembling a cargo ship or the old pre-dreadnought battleship types of the other navies. The ten 30,5cm cannons distributed evenly in two twin and triple turrets forward and aft 15 and 10cm casemated guns were separated with the smaller ones located at the ends. But this desing's striking uniqueness was the large flying bridge protruding high from the main superstructure. The idea behind this is not entirely clear but probably to provide excellent positions for the command to crew to check the ship, the battle and to examine or watch the area around the ship.

Design date: 1910
Dimensions: 155 (wl) x 27 x 8,6m
Displacement: 20.000tons (standard)
Engines: 27.000shp Steam Turbines, 4 shafts
Speed: 39km/h (21knots)
Armour: 48mm Deck, 280mm Belt
Armaments:
2x3,2x2 30,5cm/50 Skoda K09 Cannons
16x1 15cm/50 Skoda K10 Casemated Guns
8x1 10cm/50 Skoda K10 Casemated Guns
2x1 7cm/45 Skoda K10 Guns (Probably)
4x1 53cm Underwater Torpedo tubes (Probably)

Original sketch drawing:
i.imgur.com/PtWGyGT.png
Related content
Comments: 79

Tzoli In reply to ??? [2020-07-12 15:06:44 +0000 UTC]

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ThessianCG In reply to Tzoli [2020-07-12 15:27:54 +0000 UTC]

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Tzoli In reply to ThessianCG [2020-07-12 16:11:02 +0000 UTC]

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KKP1234 [2020-01-24 23:07:52 +0000 UTC]

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Tzoli In reply to KKP1234 [2020-01-25 09:21:58 +0000 UTC]

I feel you do not believe me that the ships I draw are original and not just creations of a mind.

For these I had information from the original sketch drawings, a few Hungarian Naval Enthusiasts, a book and few articles.

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TheLordTaxus [2017-11-09 01:20:01 +0000 UTC]

Wonderful class of ships. So poorly used and wasted.

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Tzoli In reply to TheLordTaxus [2017-11-09 09:06:51 +0000 UTC]

ou know these are only preliminary designs and not actual ships?
The Project VIII was used as a base for the final Viribus Unitis clas which was built.

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TheLordTaxus In reply to Tzoli [2017-11-11 04:20:55 +0000 UTC]

Yes. But the Viribus Unitus was like the South Carolina class and superior in its main
armaments layout than the Dreadnought's layout.

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Tzoli In reply to TheLordTaxus [2017-11-11 08:31:27 +0000 UTC]

No. Viribus Unitis is more like the Gangut or Dante Alighieri class but with superfiring turrets

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TheLordTaxus In reply to Tzoli [2017-11-11 11:50:47 +0000 UTC]

What are the differences between the South CarolinasΒ  and Viribus Unitis besides the extra four guns it carried? I know the SC class is sometimes called a 'super' pre-dreadnought because of its inferior speed.Β 

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Tzoli In reply to TheLordTaxus [2017-11-11 15:32:44 +0000 UTC]

Viribus Unitis is more modern, larger, heavier more heavily armed both main guns and secondary guns wise. It's faster though shorter ranged and had thinner belt but thicker deck armour. Engine too is more modern using Parsons steam turbines instead of Vertical Tripel Expansion engines. Better hull shape and different armour layout. The Viribus Unitis could be called a flush deck with some superstructure on the main deck while the South Carolina has a massive or fully built in superstructure between the turrets.

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TheLordTaxus In reply to Tzoli [2017-11-13 22:48:20 +0000 UTC]

So what is your opinion of the South Carolina class?

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Tzoli In reply to TheLordTaxus [2017-11-14 12:04:27 +0000 UTC]

I have no issues with it, a very conservative and traditional evolution of the Mississippi class, but I'M not an expert in USN designs. I will ask my friend about it.

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TheLordTaxus In reply to Tzoli [2017-11-15 00:23:32 +0000 UTC]

The Mississippi class was a failure.

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Tzoli In reply to TheLordTaxus [2017-11-15 15:29:25 +0000 UTC]

For the USN's fleet in being doctrine and for their main battlefleet yes, for Greece they were good ships.

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TheLordTaxus In reply to Tzoli [2017-11-18 02:15:08 +0000 UTC]

Until the Luftwaffe sank them.

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Tzoli In reply to TheLordTaxus [2017-11-18 09:02:12 +0000 UTC]

What did you expect from an old ship decommissioned used as a floating battery and barracks with very limited AA capacity?

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TheLordTaxus In reply to Tzoli [2017-11-19 02:33:19 +0000 UTC]

I thought they were active still.

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Tzoli In reply to TheLordTaxus [2017-11-19 11:15:50 +0000 UTC]

navypedia.org/ships/greece/gr_…
No they were not, that is why Greece asked UK to design a big gun cruiser in 1939/40 to replace these ships.

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Siveir [2017-11-01 20:39:36 +0000 UTC]

Damn great job on the research of that! Very nice, very thorough.

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yamato74 In reply to Siveir [2017-11-03 08:33:59 +0000 UTC]

Nice work! It's a pity there is not much information available about never-were projects of ships, really love your works!

πŸ‘: 0 ⏩: 1

Siveir In reply to yamato74 [2017-11-03 13:44:43 +0000 UTC]

I think that comment belongs to the author?

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yamato74 In reply to Siveir [2017-11-03 15:54:19 +0000 UTC]

Indeed but I make the same researches because i build 3d models of never-were ships, and believe me it's sometimes very difficult to get hands on reliable information.

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Siveir In reply to yamato74 [2017-11-03 20:12:22 +0000 UTC]

I don't built models, i don't draw exact plans, but i looks for some data of intended designs myself from time to time, and thus I know well how difficult it is

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yamato74 In reply to Siveir [2017-11-03 22:58:47 +0000 UTC]

I really love BBs above everything else. Not because of their power, but as status symbols. And because there are never-were projects that are simply amazing!

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Siveir In reply to yamato74 [2017-11-04 06:24:52 +0000 UTC]

Well BBs are fine, but i like all warships equally because of the complexity in their designes, status (just like you) and their place in history. I also like to see their strong and weak sides, and their design faults and how they affected them and their crews, both minor and major. And, of course, stories behind them, behind single ships, classes and entire categories . It's a world of its own, and amazing to me even more that I myself saw the sea once iny my life when I was about 5

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yamato74 In reply to Siveir [2017-11-04 09:34:34 +0000 UTC]

Wow I too became obsessed about that age with the sea and warship, gradually evolving from the age of sail (I have some 80 little resin models of sailing ship on my desk XD) to the age of steam and modern warships. Now I collect (and build) mainly 1/350 scale models of warships ranging from the 1900s to the 1940s.

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Tzoli In reply to Siveir [2017-11-02 15:26:10 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

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Midway2009 [2017-11-01 17:31:49 +0000 UTC]

Impressive battleline.

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FRIEND711 [2017-10-23 09:39:04 +0000 UTC]

coool XD

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Tzoli In reply to FRIEND711 [2017-10-23 13:21:56 +0000 UTC]

thx

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FRIEND711 In reply to Tzoli [2017-10-24 00:48:40 +0000 UTC]

NP! nice job! love what you did here ;3

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Avarus-Lux [2017-10-14 21:22:23 +0000 UTC]

looks like tegetthoff class variants , very interesting.

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Tzoli In reply to Avarus-Lux [2017-10-15 08:27:44 +0000 UTC]

Not variants, not exactly

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Avarus-Lux In reply to Tzoli [2017-10-16 07:50:49 +0000 UTC]

Ok, hmmmm, maybe the description of these being alternate history designs with some mix and match ideas from the various axis forces implemented fits better then "variants"

Looking forward to how these will turn out.

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Tzoli In reply to Avarus-Lux [2017-10-16 10:53:42 +0000 UTC]

You will see when I finish them, (16 altogether)

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Avarus-Lux In reply to Tzoli [2017-11-03 17:39:39 +0000 UTC]

well, i was wrong, and off course a good bit i did not expect proposal designs.

these are looking great, i especially like the "SPP VIII" and "SPP II" designs, but all of these have wonderful detailing.Β 

sidenote: if the displacement was to be ignored a little (cheating on numbers) the i would probably mix up the 2 designs i favor to create something using elements of both which would be a bit over the 20.000 displacement limit (and if going a bit more into the future then i would add some elements from the battlecruiser designs you showed as well).


very nicely done. really looking forward to future works

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Tzoli In reply to Avarus-Lux [2017-11-04 08:57:11 +0000 UTC]

SPP VIII? YOu Mean Seigfried Popper's Project VIII? That is ismply Project VIII

The 20.000tons limit was due to the depth limit the Fiume dry docks could handle and such for reasonable protectionΒ  this was the smallest ship which could carry 12x 30cm guns. Russians had similar issue but for them the shallow baltic waters and ports which demanded shallow draught ships, hence no superfiring turrets on the WW1 battleship and battlecruiser designs as well as built ships.

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Avarus-Lux In reply to Tzoli [2017-11-04 13:00:37 +0000 UTC]

yeah, project VIII and Project II.

i thought the limit to tonnage was a limit set by some treaty or contract, i did not know it was an actual drydock limit. ah well, learning something every day .

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Tzoli In reply to Avarus-Lux [2017-11-04 15:23:44 +0000 UTC]

Look:
books.google.hu/books?id=bZLhA…
forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/i…

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Avarus-Lux In reply to Tzoli [2017-11-04 16:39:33 +0000 UTC]

ok, so 22.000 tons limit for the dry dock (after seeing paper), the design was maxed at 20.000 to allow for some margin of error since the maximum was 22.000. thank you for this info

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Tzoli In reply to Avarus-Lux [2017-11-04 17:45:43 +0000 UTC]

Yes design target was 20.000tons but Viribus Unitis came out 20.014tons standard, of course fitting out if taken the same operation as on other navies were done after launch on the other hand future refits and repair works might need the full capacity of the drydock.

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eltf177 [2017-09-20 19:06:19 +0000 UTC]

Just keeps getting better and better...

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Tzoli In reply to eltf177 [2017-09-21 14:27:14 +0000 UTC]

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AngelisGoodwen [2017-09-15 12:37:47 +0000 UTC]

Are this pre-WW1 ships?

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Tzoli In reply to AngelisGoodwen [2017-09-15 12:47:26 +0000 UTC]

Yes

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AngelisGoodwen In reply to Tzoli [2017-09-15 12:51:11 +0000 UTC]

I thought so!Β  They're very cool, I kind of draw so insiration from the ships of the Spanish American War to Post WW2 for my own ships.

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Tzoli In reply to AngelisGoodwen [2017-09-15 13:17:28 +0000 UTC]

I draw mostly never-were designs or preliminaries of WW2 Interbellum or occasionally Cold War and WW1 warships

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AngelisGoodwen In reply to Tzoli [2017-09-15 13:37:17 +0000 UTC]

That cool!Β  I just design starships.

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Tzoli In reply to AngelisGoodwen [2017-09-15 16:50:20 +0000 UTC]

I would like to design them as well but they are more troublesome as require more views, and also I lack time

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