Description
STOP!
READ BEFORE YOU COMMENT/REPORT
This stamp does not discriminate against anyone or any religion. It is a silent protest against the discrimination that is currently being allowed to go on - nay, that is allowed to exist.
As I'm sure you've heard by now, Indiana has passed a bill that allows privately owned businesses to refuse service to anyone they deem is not a reflection of their personal religious beliefs. To put it in layman's terms, it gives business owners the right to refuse service to anyone who is LGBT. This bill came around when previously some business owners (most notably a bakery) refused service to a particular couple because they were lesbians and didn't want to make a gay themed wedding cake, after which the couple sued for discrimination. To be fair, I believe that depending on what the couple had asked for, the bakery did have every right to refuse to make the cake and they could have offered them alternatives or point them in the direction of bakeries who would cater to their needs. But this is the real world and things like that hardly ever happen. If they had, would the couple really have felt so discriminated against as to actually bring this to court?
But now that this bill has passed, it has opened up a whole lot of other fuckery that people will exploit. The first day that the announced this bill on television I called it: Businesses will begin refusing service to LGBT people solely based on the fact that they're gay/trans and not based on the product being requesting. It won't be about gay wedding cakes or gay themed photography or gay themed anything anymore, it will be about the people. But this doesn't just stop with the LGBT either, privately owned businesses are now allowed to refuse service to anyone they feel offends or goes against their personal religious beliefs. This includes people of other religions, other races/colors, interracial couples, atheists, etc etc etc.
Do you honestly believe that people won't stoop that low and further? Already there are private businesses that have begun refusing service to certain people, even those who aren't even in Indiana. We separated state and religion for a reason, so why are we still creating laws that are based on personal religious beliefs and only benefit those who fit within that category? This feels oddly familiar . (In no way am I supporting discrimination by linking this image here. This image is linked only for the purpose of the subject above.)
So, in protest to this law and those like it, I will hide any and all comments from those I feel are religious/Christian. It isn't a personal attack on you or anyone in particular, but simply that I am trying to illustrate a point. For as long as this law exists, I am exacting my right to deny comments to anyone that does not fit or offends my own personal beliefs in the same way the religious/Christians are. I will read your comments however and may even reply to them, but in every likelihood I will hide them afterwords, even those who may or may not have been posted by persons who are religious.
If this offends you in some way, then maybe you have something to think about.
Equality for all or equality for none. You can only choose one.
The language of the bill and its amendment.
SENATE ENROLLED ACT No. 101
AN ACT to amend the Indiana Code concerning civil procedure.
Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Indiana:
SECTION1.IC34-13-9 IS ADDED TO THE INDIANA CODE AS A NEW CHAPTER TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2015]:
Chapter 9. Religious Freedom Restoration
Sec. 1. This chapter applies to all governmental entity statutes, ordinances, resolutions, executive or administrative orders, regulations, customs, and usages, including the implementation or application thereof, regardless of whether they were enacted, adopted, or initiated before, on, or after July 1, 2015.
Sec. 2. A governmental entity statute, ordinance, resolution, executive or administrative order, regulation, custom, or usage may not be construed to be exempt from the application of this chapter unless a state statute expressly exempts the statute, ordinance, resolution, executive or administrative order, regulation, custom, or usage from the application of this chapter by citation to this chapter.
Sec. 3. (a) The following definitions apply throughout this section: (1) "Establishment Clause" refers to the part of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States or the Constitution of the State of Indiana prohibiting laws respecting the establishment of religion. (2) "Granting", used with respect to government funding, benefits, or exemptions, does not include the denial of government funding, benefits, or exemptions. (b) This chapter may not be construed to affect, interpret, or in any way address the Establishment Clause. (c) Granting government funding, benefits, or exemptions, to the extent permissible under the Establishment Clause, does not constitute a violation of this chapter.
Sec. 4. As used in this chapter, "demonstrates"means meets the burdens of going forward with the evidence and of persuasion.
Sec. 5. As used in this chapter, "exercise of religion" includes any exercise of religion,whether or not compelled by, or central to, a system of religious belief.
Sec. 6. As used in this chapter, "governmental entity" includes the whole or any part of a branch, department, agency, instrumentality, official, or other individual or entity acting under color of law of any of the following: (1) State government. (2) A political subdivision (as defined in IC 36-1-2-13). (3) An instrumentality of a governmental entity described in subdivision(1) or (2), including a state educational institution, a body politic, a body corporate and politic, or any other similar entity established by law.
Sec. 7. As used in this chapter, "person" includes the following: (1) An individual. (2) An organization, a religious society, a church, a body of communicants, or a group organized and operated primarily for religious purposes. (3) A partnership, a limited liability company, a corporation, a company, a firm, a society, a joint-stock company, an unincorporated association, or another entity that: (A) may sue and be sued; and (B) exercises practices that are compelled or limited by a system of religious belief held by: (i) an individual; or (ii) the individuals; who have control and substantial ownership of the entity, regardless of whether the entity is organized and operated for profit or nonprofit purposes.
Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a governmental entity may not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability. (b) A governmental entity may substantially burden a person's exercise of religion only if the governmental entity demonstrates that application of the burden to the person: (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.
Sec. 9. A person whose exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened, by a violation of this chapter may assert the violation or impending violation as a claim or defense in a judicial or administrative proceeding, regardless of whether the state or any other governmental entity is a party to the proceeding. If the relevant governmental entity is not a party to the proceeding, the governmental entity has an unconditional right to intervene in order to respond to the person's invocation of this chapter.
Sec. 10. (a) If a court or other tribunal in which a violation of this chapter is asserted in conformity with section 9 of this chapter determines that: (1) the person's exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened; and (2) the governmental entity imposing the burden has not demonstrated that application of the burden to the person: (A) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and (B) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest; the court or other tribunal shall allow a defense against any party and shall grant appropriate relief against the governmental entity. (b) Relief against the governmental entity may include any of the following: (1) Declaratory relief or an injunction or mandate that prevents, restrains, corrects, or abates the violation of this chapter. (2) Compensatory damages. (c) In the appropriate case,the court or other tribunal also may award all or part of the costs of litigation, including reasonable attorney's fees, to a person that prevails against the governmental entity under this chapter.
Sec. 11. This chapter is not intended to, and shall not be construed or interpreted to, create a claim or private cause of action against any private employer by any applicant, employee, or former employee.
Comments: 114
Kouraa [2019-09-01 14:34:28 +0000 UTC]
People are people. I thought we were past judging people for their beliefs, looks, orientation, etc.
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maticphin [2019-07-21 05:32:33 +0000 UTC]
Insensitive to the fact that religious people believe they may be committing a sin.
Doesn't matter how mad people get over the fact, it takes a lot to change a conviction.
A privately owned business has any right to refuse to do whatever they don't want to do.
π: 1 β©: 1
maticphin In reply to BlackJill [2019-07-28 22:25:40 +0000 UTC]
There's no moral reason for denying a person something based on their skin color. If a person thought there was, they would be in error.
If a man is marrying a man, that's a purposeful choice religious people have convictions against, because it's a purposeful misuse of sex.
π: 0 β©: 1
maticphin In reply to BlackJill [2019-07-31 02:31:31 +0000 UTC]
If they had any real convictions of why they shouldn't serve heterosexuals, but this is not a real scenario worth analyzing.
That's a cool statement. Stating a contrary belief doesn't really change anyone's convictions, however.
π: 0 β©: 1
maticphin In reply to BlackJill [2019-07-31 21:57:08 +0000 UTC]
Have you heard of the slippery slope fallacy?
If someone has (sincere) MORAL convictions against something, their business shouldn't have to do it.
This is a long and redundant comment to illustrate a logical fallacy.
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maticphin In reply to BlackJill [2019-08-01 14:10:04 +0000 UTC]
No, becauseΒ "your skin color is bad," has no reason other than prejudice.
This is different than "I can't make a cake to celebrate two people making a choice to abuse an act I hold sacred, which is, in my religion, a grave sin".
These two things are not comparable. Prejudice is a vice, and chastity is a virtue.
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maticphin In reply to BlackJill [2019-08-02 19:34:13 +0000 UTC]
No, because everyone is born that way.
People can become perverted later on.
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maticphin In reply to BlackJill [2019-08-03 17:43:08 +0000 UTC]
I believe the animals you're referring to are a type of worm, and some other odd/rare phenomena.Β
Β
You're not following my logic. There's no moral reason not to serve Christians.
If you thought you were aiding a Christian to do something immoral, of course you shouldn't have to serve them.
Thrown out? I'm not advocating violence.
π: 0 β©: 1
maticphin In reply to BlackJill [2019-08-04 03:32:07 +0000 UTC]
You don't need to assist a christian to do any of those things.
(And I doubt your average christian has ever done any of those things. But if they did, you certainly should refuse to assist them in those things.)
I don't see the convincing element of bringing up these animals if most animals do not, whichΒ cancels out the whole argument.
Why shouldn't we be like the animals who do not?
Hmm. In the incident of refusing to make the cake, I have to say: it was not advocating violence. You are grasping at straws.
π: 0 β©: 1
maticphin In reply to BlackJill [2019-08-04 13:11:05 +0000 UTC]
You are treating christians as a whole group. I am arguing for the right to refuse any individual assistance with an immoral act.
I never said we need to be like animals, you did.
I have already explained sbout the slippery slope fallacy, sir.
π: 0 β©: 1
maticphin In reply to BlackJill [2019-08-04 22:42:37 +0000 UTC]
The context of "Do not judge, lest you be judged," was when Jesus was explaining you can't determine whether or not someone is going to hell, since you don't know what's in their heart ie. a person who doesn't know what they're doing was wrong. He wasn't saying "Go, do whatever you want and do not inform your brother when he is sinning, and I will send everyone to Heaven." (In fact, the path is narrow).
Indeed we should love our neighbor! And inform them when they're in sin (do you really care or know anything about the bible, though? You seem to believe a lot of rhetoric and propoganda about it).
I'm not going to argue about how a fallacy in logic is okay. Reminds me of a student I had who kept insistibg their mistakes were just their style; have fun with that.
You're telling me what I'm arguing for? Do not serve them if they are making you go against your moral convictions; not because they're gay. That is unchristian, we are in agreement.
You're the one saying you'd refuse to serve a group of people in any instance, which is odd. I thought you were arguing for the opposite.
π: 0 β©: 0
PsixiTheRaven [2018-11-24 21:52:44 +0000 UTC]
Honestly, bs.
An artist can refuse to make a drawing. A baker can refuse to make a cake. A restaurant can refuse to serve someone. If it's a privately owned business: big whoop.
If someone's not comfortable creating a thing for you for whatever reason, they don't have to make the thing for you. It's a service; if they don't want your business, they're not your slave.
π: 5 β©: 1
BlackJill In reply to PsixiTheRaven [2018-11-25 03:42:45 +0000 UTC]
So, if I own a restaurant and some black folks walked in, I can refuse them service and tell them to get the fuck out on the count that they're black?
π: 0 β©: 1
PsixiTheRaven In reply to BlackJill [2018-11-25 04:36:32 +0000 UTC]
I'm guessing you wouldn't be dumb enough to state that reason out loud. If you made up any other excuse, no one would be able to stop you- you're the idiot losing business because of your racism.
If you flat out admitted to being a racist fuck (forgive the language)- well then, that's going to give your restaurant a great reputation. Nice of you to dig your own grave. Either way, you don't have to serve anyone you don't want to; the same way a server can refuse to serve a table if they feel uncomfortable doing so; say, for example, if the table was being racist.
I will admit that refusing to serve someone and refusing to make something/provide a service are two different things, but both are a right. If someone abuses that right- American law isn't exactly familiar to me, so I don't know about legal repurcussions, but well. To put it shortly: it's their funeral; acting that unprofessionally sounds like a great way to bury your business. No matter what, no one is obligated to accept your money. You can't throw cash at someone and force them to provide their service for you.
And personally, I think that if someone is unwilling to do something for you, then they're not someone you want to contract anyway; either because, say, for example, they don't feel comfortable making a certain cake for you, so they won't put their all into it and will most likely provide an inferior product, or because they're a shitty person, in which case you don't want to support them with your hard-earned cash.
π: 0 β©: 1
BlackJill In reply to PsixiTheRaven [2018-11-25 05:55:29 +0000 UTC]
In Canada/US, you can't discriminate against a person based on sex/gender, color/race, religion or lack thereof. Orientation should also be included. The only reason why people are fighting against it is because of religion, nothing else. If I owned a private business and I told someone I wouldn't serve them because they're black, or made them a cake for their African themed wedding, both of these actions are discriminatory against a group based on skin color. It's the same if I were to refuse service to someone because they're gay or trans, or refused to make a cake for a same sex wedding. Both of these things are discrimination.
I do understand not wanting to make certain products or foods that are themed in a manner that might be offensive. For example, if a same sex couple came to my bakery and asked for a penis shaped cake, I could say no and that's fine. But, if all they asked for was a cake, on what grounds can I deny them service? Keep in mind, whatever reason you come up with has to be applied to everyone else across the board, not just same sex couples. Because if you don't, that in and of itself, is discriminatory. Why is it ok for people to discriminate against same sex couples on the grounds of religion, but not ok against non-whites on the same grounds?
So I do and don't agree. Yes, they have the right to refuse to make a certain product, sure. But to deny service? I don't think so. Otherwise, can doctors deny service using that same reasoning? Yes, they can deny service to people who are hostile, rude, intoxicated and the like, but to simply tell deny a person service and give no reason, or deny service but fabricate a reason without evidence, isn't legal. Or, at the very least, it shouldn't be (I don't know about per state policies, I'd have to look them up). Otherwise, religious people will use these reasons to deny people services like medical services or being served in a restaurant.
And before you say that wouldn't happen, it already has and still is. Abortion clinics didn't blow themselves up. Kim Davis wasn't pretending. They're already pushing to give doctors the right to deny service to LGBTQ people (did you know pharmacists already have that "right"? If you're a woman and need medications because of a miscarriage or you need birth control, a pharmacist can deny your prescription, as well as deny you service if you're homosexual). They're already making public schools allow religious propaganda on school grounds. And these are just a few examples.
No one is saying they can't practice their religion, I have no issue with that. As long as it doesn't come at the cost of other people's right(s). If you own a business and/or provide a public service, you should be expected to serve everyone, equally, regardless of your beliefs. Not because we're being mean, but because we expect people to provide you with that same service and respect. Otherwise, we'll start seeing segregation of color/races, religion, gender/sex/orientation.
Again, that's not even an exaggeration. I don't know what country you live in or how extreme religion can be in your country, but in US/Canada, the only thing keeping religion from going extreme is the Constitution. Otherwise, if they had it their way, it would be as bad as the Middle East. That might seem like an extreme thing to say, but keep our history in mind; slavery, genocide, witch hunts, slut shaming, persecution of other religion/culture/no religion, persecution and execution of homosexuals. These were socially and legally acceptable in the past. Why? Because religion was their reasoning. It was then, it's still now. Nothing's changed about that. What has changed are the laws and the Constitution, limiting what can or can't be done.
This is no different. If we give them even so much as an inch, not only will they take the goddamn mile, but they'll charge you for it.
TL;DR: Nope.
π: 0 β©: 0
NicoToonArt [2018-11-16 05:38:18 +0000 UTC]
π: 0 β©: 1
BlackJill In reply to NicoToonArt [2018-11-23 00:18:59 +0000 UTC]
You know, I could report your comment as a threat. I mean, if we're going to be petty and all...
π: 2 β©: 0
redowner95 [2018-10-16 15:46:15 +0000 UTC]
This post reminds me of femints saying "Men and women are equal" but proceeds to kick men off of college campuses, take down father's rights, and of course saying "All men are pigs."
New Atheists/anti theist these days have the same IQ as a sjw.
π: 1 β©: 0
Keshkowara [2017-12-21 15:17:12 +0000 UTC]
Posts comment
π: 0 β©: 0
bailmint [2017-08-05 21:49:09 +0000 UTC]
"privately owned business"
"privately owned business"
"privately owned business""privately owned business""privately owned business""privately owned business""privately owned business""privately owned business""privately owned business""privately owned business""privately owned business""privately owned business""privately owned business"
π: 0 β©: 1
Aclianna In reply to bailmint [2017-09-28 21:42:00 +0000 UTC]
Exactly
π: 0 β©: 0
LadyTroodon [2017-07-17 05:20:21 +0000 UTC]
Secular humanist commenting.
This is bullshit at face value, but actually ends up being thought provoking after the description is read.
π: 0 β©: 0
AnonymousPumpkins [2017-04-06 01:13:08 +0000 UTC]
Im an atheist and I find this to be complete horseshit. You say youre not discriminating but youre wanting an entire group to be silenced because you said so. Fuck off with this idiocyΒ
π: 0 β©: 3
Kouraa In reply to AnonymousPumpkins [2019-09-01 14:36:00 +0000 UTC]
I know I'm super late, but, thank you a bunch friend!
π: 0 β©: 0
BlackJill In reply to AnonymousPumpkins [2017-04-18 00:27:50 +0000 UTC]
Pssst, that's the point. It's complete horseshit to silence a whole group simply because X person or group says so.
π: 0 β©: 0
Mewwn In reply to AnonymousPumpkins [2017-04-12 13:11:12 +0000 UTC]
Agnostic Athiest here and I completely agree. OP is an idiot.
π: 0 β©: 0
61021376 [2017-04-05 17:13:39 +0000 UTC]
How about the atheistic government of China treating religious minorities like political enemies and harvesting them for organs? are you interested in that at all?
π: 0 β©: 1
BlackJill In reply to 61021376 [2017-04-18 00:32:33 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, of course I am. However, cite your sources.
π: 0 β©: 1
61021376 In reply to BlackJill [2017-04-18 00:50:21 +0000 UTC]
www.dafoh.org/unethical-organ-β¦ are you living under a rock where not every single officially atheistic regime in history is brutally oppressive to religious people? and here you are complaining about private business owners being allowed to not make products that they don't want to sell?
π: 0 β©: 1
BlackJill In reply to 61021376 [2017-04-18 11:49:48 +0000 UTC]
That's your only source? What?
π: 0 β©: 1
61021376 In reply to BlackJill [2017-04-18 11:51:09 +0000 UTC]
You can find as many sources as you want if you're interested in the subject.
π: 0 β©: 1
61021376 In reply to BlackJill [2017-04-18 12:16:08 +0000 UTC]
Because the DAFOH is full of shit, you think? ok....
Well you're obviously not interested in actual oppression of people so I could provide ten other links, I feel like you wouldn't even click them
π: 0 β©: 1
BlackJill In reply to 61021376 [2017-04-18 18:11:11 +0000 UTC]
No, I am. I'm simply asking for you to cite more sources than just some website. You brought it up, so show me some evidence.
π: 0 β©: 1
C-0-R-E [2017-04-05 16:01:18 +0000 UTC]
Translation:
"I'm going to say I do not discriminate, but I'll be discriminative by saying you aren't allowed to say anything because of what you believe."
π: 0 β©: 1
BlackJill In reply to C-0-R-E [2017-04-18 00:32:01 +0000 UTC]
That's the point. It's like people can't think anymore, or read between the lines. They take everything they read at face value without really thinking about it at all.
π: 0 β©: 0
canttel [2017-04-05 06:42:58 +0000 UTC]
Im im a christian islamic buddist jew. Fight me bich
π: 0 β©: 1
BlackJill In reply to canttel [2017-04-18 00:35:07 +0000 UTC]
I'm* Christian* Islamic* Buddhist* Jew* bitch*
When you learn to use proper grammar and spelling, we can fight.
π: 1 β©: 1
canttel In reply to BlackJill [2017-04-18 00:52:03 +0000 UTC]
i like it when the opposition goes for grammar. it outright tells me you dislike what i said and have chosen to pick the easy way out by mocking the spelling. spectacular.Β
π: 0 β©: 1
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