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I'm so sick of hearing people tell me that because I'm not religious or because I don't believe in God that somehow I have no morals, or that I don't believe in anything.

When the fuck did religion, especially the Abrahamic religions (Abrahamic religions ), become the origin of morality? And since when did religion define morality?

Morality begins when a society begins forming ideas and principles on what is right or wrong, and I'm pretty certain these concepts predate organized religion. In fact, I'm also pretty certain these concepts even predate homosapiens and exist in primates, such as the Bonobo Chimpanzees. Although they don't exhibit morals in the human sense, they have and still exhibit strong traits that lead to the evolution of morality in humans. Their social contruct was passed on to the first homosapien, and from there not only was there a biological evolution, but a psychological one as well.

I'm pretty sure primates weren't going around door to door pimping God/religion out to any poor schmuck who had the misfortune of opening his/her door before realizing what was really on his/her doorstep, and I'm pretty sure the first homosapiens weren't doing that either. While the actual idea/concepts of right and wrong were evolving in the first humans, the idea of religion didn't yet exist. Yes, while early humans did exhibit signs of ritual burials, there's no evidence that these were religious rituals to any deity, but could just as well have been that once they'd contructed communities, there was a greater emotional attachment to the deceased and began burying or burning their dead rather than leave their bodies to be fed upon by wild animals. You also have to take into account that because humans began living in communities, they were more likely to pass on whilst still within that community and the smell of a decomposing body would also attract wild animals.

Yes, later on religious ideas began playing a large role in our burial ritual when we began wondering where the soul went after departing from the body, and thus the concepts of an afterlife came into being and thus questions of origin and purpose spurred on the idea of God(s).

As communities began to grow larger, it would also begin to be that much more difficult to control such a large number of people. If no one person or organization can enforce morality in a community, or even an entire society, since that one person or organization would be much smaller than the whole of the society, you need something much larger. Thus religion was invented. It was the idea that if you did wrong, some God would come down and punish you, and if you did good you would be rewarded, especially after you die.

Of course, people fear the finality of death, so many are willing to believe anything so long as they're promised a continuuity of their self awareness after death. They don't want, or simply can't, accept that after death, that's it. There's no waking up. There's nothing. So it was easy to get people to believe in the idea of a heaven, hell and purgatory.

With that being said, religion is not the origin of morality, but rather quite the opposite.

Religion is the result of morality. The idea of what is right or wrong would have to have existed prior to the idea of religion, which was used to enforced those moralities on a much greater scale.

And so...

Apes evolved into humans.

Humans began forming groups.

Those groups became small communities.

A greater attachment and respect for members of their community lead to the idea of burial, even ritual burial, and also to avoid attracting wild animals and disease.

These rituals lead to questioning the afterlife and who or what created it.

Said questions lead to the idea of (a) greater being(s), or rather the idea of origin.

Origin lead to religion.

Religion became law.

These laws lead to wars and discrimination between different religions and/or non-religious since different societies had different ideas of what origin was, and thus lead to different religions.

We came to the realization that the problem was that people abused religion and religion abused laws.

So we invented human rights.

These new laws and rights conflicted with religious doctrine.

So we seperated law and government from religion.

Religion ≠ law. It can no longer make any decisions that would affect government and/or law.

Religion is pretty miffed.

Religion decides that it can pay attention to a single part of its own doctrine but ignore the rest at its own convenience but fuck the rest of the world because they decided that God hates a certain group of people and the rest of the world needs to obey.

The rest of the world decides religion can go fuck itself.

Religion does not define morality because religion did not make morality. If religion had invented morality, there wouldn't be such a variety of religion to begin with. What sort of God would let his plebeians cheat on him/her/it with another God(dess)?

These are just my five cents, my opinions, most of which are actually factual. I could be wrong on any of my above points and I'm not above being corrected. That being said, if you're going to correct me on anything, you better have evidence to back up your statements, and said evidence better be more than just your preaching, personal experience, what your mommy and daddy told you, a website you saw, what your preacher said, etc etc etc.

Give me actual facts that come with links to supporting material.

Just some links for you to look at that actually relate to the topic above. I'll likely post more later.

History of burials.

Origin of morality.

Description
I'm so sick of hearing people tell me that because I'm not religious or because I don't believe in God that somehow I have no morals, or that I don't believe in anything.

When the fuck did religion, especially the Abrahamic religions (Abrahamic religions ), become the origin of morality? And since when did religion define morality?

Morality begins when a society begins forming ideas and principles on what is right or wrong, and I'm pretty certain these concepts predate organized religion. In fact, I'm also pretty certain these concepts even predate homosapiens and exist in primates, such as the Bonobo Chimpanzees. Although they don't exhibit morals in the human sense, they have and still exhibit strong traits that lead to the evolution of morality in humans. Their social contruct was passed on to the first homosapien, and from there not only was there a biological evolution, but a psychological one as well.

I'm pretty sure primates weren't going around door to door pimping God/religion out to any poor schmuck who had the misfortune of opening his/her door before realizing what was really on his/her doorstep, and I'm pretty sure the first homosapiens weren't doing that either. While the actual idea/concepts of right and wrong were evolving in the first humans, the idea of religion didn't yet exist. Yes, while early humans did exhibit signs of ritual burials, there's no evidence that these were religious rituals to any deity, but could just as well have been that once they'd contructed communities, there was a greater emotional attachment to the deceased and began burying or burning their dead rather than leave their bodies to be fed upon by wild animals. You also have to take into account that because humans began living in communities, they were more likely to pass on whilst still within that community and the smell of a decomposing body would also attract wild animals.

Yes, later on religious ideas began playing a large role in our burial ritual when we began wondering where the soul went after departing from the body, and thus the concepts of an afterlife came into being and thus questions of origin and purpose spurred on the idea of God(s).

As communities began to grow larger, it would also begin to be that much more difficult to control such a large number of people. If no one person or organization can enforce morality in a community, or even an entire society, since that one person or organization would be much smaller than the whole of the society, you need something much larger. Thus religion was invented. It was the idea that if you did wrong, some God would come down and punish you, and if you did good you would be rewarded, especially after you die.

Of course, people fear the finality of death, so many are willing to believe anything so long as they're promised a continuuity of their self awareness after death. They don't want, or simply can't, accept that after death, that's it. There's no waking up. There's nothing. So it was easy to get people to believe in the idea of a heaven, hell and purgatory.

With that being said, religion is not the origin of morality, but rather quite the opposite.

Religion is the result of morality. The idea of what is right or wrong would have to have existed prior to the idea of religion, which was used to enforced those moralities on a much greater scale.

And so...

Apes evolved into humans.

Humans began forming groups.

Those groups became small communities.

A greater attachment and respect for members of their community lead to the idea of burial, even ritual burial, and also to avoid attracting wild animals and disease.

These rituals lead to questioning the afterlife and who or what created it.

Said questions lead to the idea of (a) greater being(s), or rather the idea of origin.

Origin lead to religion.

Religion became law.

These laws lead to wars and discrimination between different religions and/or non-religious since different societies had different ideas of what origin was, and thus lead to different religions.

We came to the realization that the problem was that people abused religion and religion abused laws.

So we invented human rights.

These new laws and rights conflicted with religious doctrine.

So we seperated law and government from religion.

Religion ≠ law. It can no longer make any decisions that would affect government and/or law.

Religion is pretty miffed.

Religion decides that it can pay attention to a single part of its own doctrine but ignore the rest at its own convenience but fuck the rest of the world because they decided that God hates a certain group of people and the rest of the world needs to obey.

The rest of the world decides religion can go fuck itself.

Religion does not define morality because religion did not make morality. If religion had invented morality, there wouldn't be such a variety of religion to begin with. What sort of God would let his plebeians cheat on him/her/it with another God(dess)?

These are just my five cents, my opinions, most of which are actually factual. I could be wrong on any of my above points and I'm not above being corrected. That being said, if you're going to correct me on anything, you better have evidence to back up your statements, and said evidence better be more than just your preaching, personal experience, what your mommy and daddy told you, a website you saw, what your preacher said, etc etc etc.

Give me actual facts that come with links to supporting material.

Just some links for you to look at that actually relate to the topic above. I'll likely post more later.

History of burials.

Origin of morality.