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DrScottHartman β African Brachiosaur
Published: 2009-05-22 16:54:00 +0000 UTC; Views: 20134; Favourites: 183; Downloads: 0
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Description
Giraffatitan. I know some of you don't like the name, but it's clearly "winning" so you may as well get used to it. This is the classic African brachiosaur that is mounted in Berlin. It's also freakin' huge.Edit (6/2013): Reposed and made some fairly major changes to the silhouette. The skeleton itself was fine.
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Comments: 95
While I have a degree of suspicion about the S-curve necks, doesn't it seem like this suspension bridge style puts the center of gravity way forward with such a short tail? Like the Isisaurus looks to have had a really horizontal neck, but it also probably had a long, beefy tail to balance it.
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It's an interesting question, but I don't think so. The neck is not as dense as the body, and far less dense than the hindlimbs and tail. Estimates for the specific gravity of the neck generally varies from .6-.7 (I'd personally end up on the high side of that, because of the nuchal ligaments), the torso .7-.85, while the tail, pelvis, and limbs should all be right around 1.0. In all probability the pelvic region + tail would have massed about the same as the neck, and the tail is sticking out more or less straight, which shifts the center of gravity further aft.
Also, FWIW I don't agree that Isisaurus had a horizontal neck, the vertebral column angle looks pretty much like other titanosaurs to me. It appears that only diplodocids has truly horizontal necks, though basal sauropods probably held their necks at angles somewhere in between.Β
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at first, I didn't really like Giraffatitan or Brachiosaurus, but now I'm drawing it I start to like it more, your skeletal also helped (I somehow find this more straight neck posture better suited for the animal than that strong S-curve)
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Thanks - I also agree (to my own surprise) that the less S-curved necks have a grace and weight to them that many older reconstructions lack, though of course that wouldn't be a reason to change them if it weren't also for the way the neck vertebrae go together.
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nah, thank you for making the skeletal!
Yes, I don't know why, but let's just #thickenthenecks
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Scott have you seen Nima's new GiraffatitanΒ skeletal? It's beautiful, and it's multiview:Β paleo-king.deviantart.com/art/β¦
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I had seen, yes. I don't agree with several of Nima's interpretations, but it's very nicely executed.
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Is this one scaled to the size of the Berlin specimen HMN SII or an adult specimen such as HMN XV2?
Because when I compare it to your Brachiosaurus(not the one from your "Thunder Lizards" size comparison, but the standalone skeletal, which has an axial length of ~23.7 meters give or take last time I measured, it's probably scaled to the size of the holotype specimen FMNH P 25107, correct me if I'm wrong), this Giraffatitan ends up somewhat larger.
The Berlin Giraffatitan has been estimated at roughly around ~22-23 meters. This one seems to be quite a bit larger than that.
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It's HMN SII. I believe the classic 22-23 meter long estimate is based off of Janensch's publications, which measured the modelled skeleton, not the actual vertebrae.
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Oh. I thought that this one was HMN XV2 because it ended up quite a bit larger than your Brachiosaurus, to the point where the torso of this Giraffatitan even ended up longer, despite Brachiosaurus having a proportionally longer torso.
This Giraffatitan ended up roughly around ~25.3 meters long.
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Oh, in that case maybe you are correct - I'll have to double check when I get a chance.
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I was curious about Gregory Paul describing Giraffatitan as having "withers" and I was wondering about it. Do you think this would benefit it, aiding in a vertical neck posture, as Brachiosaurus appears to lack these so called "withers" so could it mean that the species had different neck postures. Thanks
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Is that tiny tail really can support balance?
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The obvious answer is "yes", since the animal clearly existed. But it's a misnomer that sauropods needed long tails to balance out their necks - only diplodocids seem to grow such truly gigantic tails, and in macronarians there doesn't seem to be any connection between neck and tail length.
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Well, I know truly that my question has been proven millions of years ago, just wonder if they would collapse face-first to the ground
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Quadrupeds don't need counterbalances. Big-headed buffalo don't have larger tails than deer for example.
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dude i have to give you most of the credit for my art they realy help me to reconstruct these amazing animals Β thanks scott i think i speak for all paleoartists when i say we would be lost without you
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You're welcome. I wish I had more time to dedicate to it, but it's certainly a rewarding process (not always "fun", but definitely rewarding).
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I know what you mean for some reason you just have to do it
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My version (with credit, of course).
pedrosalas.deviantart.com/art/β¦
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I actually like the name, but Brachiosaurus branci was a killer combination...
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I agree. Of course Dynamosaurus imperiosus was a pretty badass binomial as well.
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Who the hell doesn't like Giraffatitan's name? Nobody I'd want to know. Giraffatitan is an awesome name.
That's like somebody complaining about Irritator's name.
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Mike Taylor isn't smitten with it. I don't personally have strong feelings either way, although Giraffatitan really does seem to be the most giraffe-like of sauropods in some ways.
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Brachiosaurus is a much more subtle name, which makes the animal seem even greater.
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In terms of the meaning, or the glottal stops when pronouncing the name?
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Both. There's also a hard-to-explain element in a name beginning with "b" that makes it sound more docile or humble.
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Dragons!
Oh wait, I'm not a Victorian.
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I actually really appreciate how you constantly update you're skeletal reconstructions. I thank you for youβre professional delegates sir 
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I meant to say *diligence.
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You're welcome for both the delegates AND the diligence
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What percentage of a living brachiosaur's body mass would say the neck contributed? I'm leaning toward 30-40%, which is insane.
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I doubt it would exceed 20% - it would have a very low density due to the extensive air sacs.
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Only problem though is that most paleontologists believe that such a neck pose would be impossible for any sauropod, due to the fact that such a large heart would be needed to pump blood to the head. More then likely, brachiosaurs would hold their head at a 45 degree angle. However, I know one argument that says all tetrapods hold their head at the highest possible angle when alert.
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One advantage of working in paleontology is you don't have to worry about what the internet or popular books claim "most paleontologists think". 
What was more convincing to many dinosaur paleontologists was the work of Kent Stevens and company that seemed to show that the bones themselves wouldn't support such a pose. It turns out, however, that they made some incorrect assumptions in those papers. Some of those errors were explored by Taylor et al in a paper published a couple years ago, and the others of which I presented on at SVP twice (last year and in 2006) and am getting ready to submit for publication.
The TL;DR version: I'm quite comfortable with the neck posture.
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I'd still imagine it would pose a problem to an animal of that size. The giraffe already has a hard enough time with its neck, let alone a sauropod.
I think one hypothesis some paleontologists came up with was that sauropods had sort of 'mini-hearts' located in their neck to help with maintaining blood pressure. But, as there is no evidence to support it, I don't buy it.
I maintain they held their neck lower than a lot of people believe, due to the issues of having such a long neck held so high. Unless, of course, evidence which suggest they held their head high in the sky come out.
But I'm not a paleontologist, so what do I know.
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I don't think you can really characterize what "a lot of people believe" as it's an ongoing debate among sauropod workers (e.g., there isn't an opinion that is dominant). Some of the problems that giraffes have are mammal-specific (or at least not present in saurischians). Specifically, their long tracheas make breathing much more difficult, but this isn't a problem in animals with air sacs and unidirectional lungs like sauropods and theropods (including birds). A while back Greg Paul and Guy Leahy calculated that there was no need for accessory pumps in the neck, just a large and well developed heart in an upright-necked brachiosaur (of course if those speculative pumps did exist they would make it even easier).
In fact I don't know any current paleontologist that works on sauropods that is unduly concerned about circulation - they are correctly honing in on the bones themselves, because if they skeletons show that they had upright necks (and I'm not alone in maintaining that they do) then it doesn't really matter whether we know what the soft-tissue did, it clearly must have worked to support what the skeletons were capable of.
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Hmm, never thought of it that way. The only other problem would be preventing the animal from passing out while it drank. (which giraffes have adaptations for, so brachiosaurs probably had a similar adaptation)
In light of this, as well as doing some deeper research, I see that my previous view was somewhat flawed in reasoning. I thank you for getting me to do some deeper research into the subject.
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Happy to have helped. Getting people to drill down deeper is one of the best parts of the job
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Well, I've always had a thing for Dinosaurs, so I love to learn all I can.
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M. Hartman, I have a question, why the humerus to femur ratio is 1.0? shouldn't it be higher?
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Cool this is just what I need may I please trace it in gimp for a reconstruction of how it might have looked in life
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Cool this is just what I need may I please trace it in gimp for a reconstruction of how it might have looked in life
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Yay! A scale bar! I can use this now instead of you-know-who's reconstruction. Thank you, Scott!
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