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Foedus — For The Bible Tells Me So
Published: 2011-12-02 18:10:40 +0000 UTC; Views: 4223; Favourites: 177; Downloads: 15
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"Had any of you been born in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Syria, etc, there is nearly a 100% chance that you would be Muslim, and no amount of free will given to you from Jesus would prevent that. You would be doomed to Hell strictly because your parents lived in the wrong country. Think about that the next time you picture your God as all-loving and merciful. If He exists like you say He does, He is allowing millions of souls to go to Hell because they were born into a nation that does not believe in Him. How do you justify this?" C. Diddy
One of the most interesting quotes that I've seen expressing this hypocrisy in the Christian Religion.
A few Christians I know are relatively accepting, they may need a knock on the head once or twice, but they are absolutely wonderful to get into physiological and spiritual debates with. They also, of course, understand perfectly that I have my doubts with christianity. (I'd be far more comfortable believing in the older and pagan religions). They were also from my world religion class, and even they understand and aknowledge that the bible had been written by humans, and therefor is contaminated by the "human element."
However, there were christians in that class that had fits because they (as my other stamp Sorry Christians says) were being taught that there were other religions other than Christianity.
Well, needless to say, this argument came up in class, and the room absolutely imploded. I mean, seriously imploded. Security needed to be called because some crazy woman threw a book at the teacher's head.
HOWEVER I DIGRESS HOLYFUCK.
God is not all loving, and from what I read IN the bible, he really didn't think his creations through, at all, or his decisions. Why in the hell he would put a FORBIDDEN TREE IN THE MIDDLE OF EDEN AND TELL THEM NOT TO EAT FROM IT, is beyond me. Why he wouldn't just smite humans during Noah's Ark, being that Animals rely on instinct and survival, while humans are... less than so... is beyond me as well. To kill everything just because a few people are pissing you off? Nah, not my cup of tea.
[link] An article that expresses this issue.
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UPDATE
So I have christians telling me that the word of God is the bible it should all be believed in context, and christians telling me that only half of it is applicable. I think you people need to make up your mind and figure out what is going on in your religion, because not only are you making yourselves look like a disorganized group of schoolchildren (as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam usually does), you're pretty much proving to EVERYONE how dissolved your minds are thanks to this.
SO I've done some thinking, and amidst me and my class buddies getting a starbucks and huddling around a table, I came up with a new notion.
Answer me this Christians.
If a man would come up to you and say he was the Son of God, what would you do? Would you shriek and bow at his feet asking him for forgiveness, or would you rebuke him, tell him he needed help, and ASK FOR PROOF?
To those who get irritated with me going I want physical proof not the 'word of god' (bible) don't seem to get that THE BIBLE WILL NEVER BE PHYSICAL PROOF TO ME. Stop going "Well the bible said this," because I really don't care. I'm looking for any historical NON-BIBLICAL evidence, that you can provide, that these events ever happened.
Such Events:
The Existence of Eden
The Great Flood
The Tower of Babel
The Plagues
Jesus' Existence
And other Monumental occurences.
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Comments: 119
You do know that most of the stories from the first section were meant to be parables, and not serious, right? Even through all the crazy middle ages, they taught that the story of the garden of Eden may not have been literal, and was just meant to be metaphorical explanation of the power of their new God.
Also, the idea that people who don't believe in Christianity through something that wasn't their own fault when there were extraneous circumstances would go to hell isn't a real teaching either. It was something which people during the protestant reformation who didn't want to follow the actual rules started teaching, to make themselves still look religious when they weren't actually. The actual Bible literally says the opposite like eight times, and people only think that because they stretched the meaning of one verse which even in it's own context still would only apply in some cases.
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So you're telling me the word of God, in which christianity is recorded in, is not all meant to be serious? Well, that's certainly awkward. I'm not the one that needs telling that however, I do believe that needs to be directed towards the countless foaming mouths that preach it as if it is serious.
And the fact that the bible would need to repeat itself eight times on the same issue says enough, especially when its following is so blinded by its self preserved wants and fears.
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I've wondered this myself sometimes, to be honest. 
It's like the story with the blind wise men who came across an elephant. Each felt a different part of the elephant, and came to different opinions/conclusions as to what an "elephant" was. One thought it was a tree because he grabbed its leg. Another thought it was a rope because he grabbed its tail. Another thought it was a wall because he felt its side, and so on. The story ends with them arguing over that an elephant really was.
I think that story kind of sums up what I think about God. Everyone sees Him in a different way, but no one can really know for sure who or what is right until we die and find out for ourselves. 
As for Hell... I wonder if it's something humans came up with. Either humans actually created a hell, or just imagined it to get money. Though, the concept of an "underworld" has been in quite a few religions/beliefs, I think, so I wonder if it can really be a coincidence?
Sorry if this comment is too long, or if it bothers anyone!
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Why would you get flamed for it, it is an interesting point with backing evidence and words to support your side of the argument. And that, I do indeed respect.
And you are completely right. No one has a right to say what a deity thinks or deems right, even the humans who were 'blessed' to write the bible.
Sometimes the Underworld in different lores isn't necessarily evil. Personally, based on my own ideas on such a creation, is that it was a story meant to scare the children, and it evolved into a larger thing.
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I get paranoid! 
Yeah, I mean, I think that religions overall can be a good thing; they give people values and teach them little life lessons. But religion is like fire; it can be really good and helpful, but when used wrongly, it can be terrible.
I think it was Greek mythology where the god of death wasn't that bad of a guy; he just ruled the place of the dead. I wonder if underworlds are sometimes viewed as "bad" and "scary" because people are afraid of death and the unknown. 
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Says so straight from the Bible. If He loved everyone, then he wouldn't kill off pretty much everyone.
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Yep, when I told a priest as a kid that I was having problems believing in god I was told to read the bible; I read it cover to cover. That soooo did not fix my faith, only made it certain that god either didnt exist or that whole love and fear him made him out to be an abusive 'father.' His brutality is not taken out of context, nor is it just a mistranslation. Book after book of the bible he abuses even his own 'chosen people' and drives them to commit genocide and murder. These are not the actions of a just, moral, or loving deity; they are those of a violent tyrant with severe mood swings.
I do understand you point about it being easier to understand the older and pagan religions. Frankly, Im pretty sure that the Norse mythology has a less violence and lower body count in it than the bible...
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In my theory of the Polytheistic religions, in which I believe in one myself. Mind you I do not acknowledge the Christian god as a real god, though I willingly acknowledge the Old gods as proper deities. The reason being is because I always found something more appealing and straightforward about the lore that is wrapped around them, more particularly the Nordic Religion.
My other idea on this whole religion argument is that The Christian religion tries to cram way too many things into one Deity, that's why I've always come to the conclusion that monotheism fails in a way. Sooner or later, the people begin seeing heinous contradictions in the written texts, and the people begin to fall away from that religion. I for one had always been fascinated in the Pagan religions, and found more drawing, as I said before, to the Norse lore.
Needless to say, my catholic mother didn't like that too much. Many times she told me "If burnings were allowed, I'd have you strapped to a pole screaming for God's mercy." She's probably one of the reasons why I'm so bitter towards the religion.
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Know what you mean about cramming too much into the Christian deities. Wind up having a spiteful, loving, warlike, peace-loving crazy entity that is nothing but a contradiction every where you look. 👍: 0 ⏩: 1
From personal experience, I really have little trouble on any level with paganism. Have yet to find a pagan that I could not have an intelligent conversation with and they never go into the whole 'burn the unbeliever' mentality with people who have differing views.
Yea, my family is all Catholic. Didnt get the 'burn the witch' response when I stated that I was an atheist but they flipped the fuck out. Granted, its taken a decade and an increasing number of reports of priests molesting children but they are beginning to accept my reasoning.
I've never had much problem with the pagan lifestyle because my mother pretty much came to terms that it isn't the animal sacrificing backwards speaking cross-masturbating thing the church tried to say it was. That, and the fact that the church isn't doing much to help the molested children who were attacked by their priests actually has her asking what it's all about. Not many people get that I'm just against Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, not all of the religions.
Not many people get that I'm a pagan as well, they just see 'OH MGOD YOU'RE AGAINST CHRISTIANITY YOU MUST BE ATHEIST.' Not necessarily. x3
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I'm more schizophrenic than god XD That's a bad idea.
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More schizophrenic than god? My dear, that's quite impossible. He's God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and all the other silly prophets in the Bible at once. How can you top that?
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We discussed why God put the tree there in the first place...but I kind of forgot it now...
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Common reaction to this question:
"Everyone will be judged after death fairly, because god is merciful."
"But... it explicitly says in the bible that the only way to salvation is Jesus."
"Everyone will have a fair chance."
"But... what do you base this on?"
"Because I think so!"
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Haha! PRetty much sums up the reactions I've been getting.
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A typical rationalization to compensate for the inadequacy of the bible as a moral guide.
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How do you know they go to hell? 
If you don't believe in God, fine. I could care less. But for those of us who do, this is offensive and downright stupid. Just because you don't believe doesn't mean you can put crap up like this. Get a life.
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Actually, it is because the author does not believe in your religious crap that he/she can put up art like this.
People have the right to free speech.
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There could have least been a warning for "idealogically sensitive" so anyone who wanders upon doesn't have to see it, unless they click it.
Because someone has the right of free speech doesn't mean they should go around telling people that their beliefs are stupid and unjustified and that really everyone is damned if they don't grow up in the right place.
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"There could have least been a warning for "idealogically sensitive" so anyone who wanders upon doesn't have to see it, unless they click it."
And how exactly would they go about doing that?
"Because someone has the right of free speech doesn't mean they should go around telling people that their beliefs are stupid and unjustified and that really everyone is damned if they don't grow up in the right place."
You did not get the point of the stamp.
The person who made the stamp is nonreligious. The stamp shows the ridiculousness of the common assertion that the religious make when they state that their god is all loving and also damns people at the same time. The artist did not intend on telling people that they are damned if they didn't grow up in the right place. The artist intended on showing how people who make such claims are inconsistent when they also make the claim that their god is loving.
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You can put warnings on devaitions when you create them. One of which is "idealogically sensitive".
They don't get the point of religion. It's a matetr of what people believe. So them saying "if you belieive God is all loving you're stupid 'cuz the bible says he's not". You choose to believe parts of the bible. You can never believe the whole thing, because, yes, it is inconsitent. That's why there's so many branches of Christiainity and even religion in general. The main differnce between Jews and Chritians is that Jews don't believe in a whole part of the bible that christians do.
It's stupid to put up stamps bashing people's beliefs when the fact is, they don't even get religion and beliefs in the first place. They're ignorant, obnoxious, and offensive.
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...
Firstly, if an opinion is informed, then it isn't ignorant.
The opinion of the maker of the stamp is informed, as it is based upon knowledge regarding the content of scriptural texts.
Furthermore, most christians believe that they believe in the whole bible and that it isn't inconsistent(even though it is.). Thus, this stamp presents an argument to a target group of people to whom it applies. Thus, there is nothing "ignorant" about this stamp.
Furthermore, criticism of beliefs is not necessarily obnoxious or offensive. No idea is above criticism. It only becomes truly offensive when personal attacks are being directed towards an individual or group of people.
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My point was that their stamp is based off the bible, which only makes partifular sense if you believe. Using the bible as "proof" when you don't even believe what it's saying is...stupid.
Not any christians I've met. So I don't know where you get the "most" from, because in my experiance many christians do know it's inconsistent and so they believe in certain parts.
Not necessairly, but this particular stamp struck a nerve with me and another person who said they agreed with me.
Let me get this straight:
"Thus, this stamp presents an argument to a target group of people...It only becomes truly offensive when personal attacks are being directed towards a... group of people."
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"My point was that their stamp is based off the bible, which only makes partifular sense if you believe. Using the bible as "proof" when you don't even believe what it's saying is...stupid."
He/she was using the bible to argue against people who believe in it.
Please, please watch these atheist videos. It is very common for us to use the bible to show the religious why their religion is stupid.
[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]
The religious claim that they draw their beliefs from the bible. Thus, it is perfectly logical to refute their beliefs by showing why the bible is flawed, and also by showing them that their beliefs conflict with that which is in the bible.
"Not any christians I've met. So I don't know where you get the "most" from, because in my experiance many christians do know it's inconsistent and so they believe in certain parts."
Well then you haven't met very many christians. Dude, I used to be a christian. I grew up in a fundamentalist christian family, and have been to many christian churches. Virtually every christian that I have ever met claims that the bible is completely consistent.
Finally, you mistake presenting an argument with directing a personal attack. Way to misinterpret what I read and quote mine at THE SAME TIME. I stated that this stamp presents an argument to a target group of people. That is not the same as directing a personal attack towards a group of people.
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But the bible is a just a book if you don't believe in what it says. That's like trying to say that you can't like Harry/Hermioni because the real couple in Harry Potter is Ron/Hermini. It's your own personal beleifs about what the bible says, not the bible is correct and all right (or maybe some people believe that, but I've personally never met anyone who has). People interpret and come to their own conclusions.
I'm not touching those links.
Again, people beleive things based off the bible (or is it really just me?). So trying to say they're wrong because this "verse of this page in this chapter" says otherwise is, again...stupid, IMO.
I've attended grown up with my entire family beiung christains, attended 3 different churches and hundreds different services in one, dozens in the others, gone to countless youth christian meetings (with thousands of christians in each) and I have yet to meet one, ONE, who thinks the bible is completely consistent.
I mistook them? I don't think I did, thanks. They used may have used "argument" to back up their attack, but they still made an attack.
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"But the bible is a just a book if you don't believe in what it says. That's like trying to say that you can't like Harry/Hermioni because the real couple in Harry Potter is Ron/Hermini. It's your own personal beleifs about what the bible says, not the bible is correct and all right (or maybe some people believe that, but I've personally never met anyone who has). People interpret and come to their own conclusions."
...
I already answered this. I repost:
The religious claim that they draw their beliefs from the bible. Thus, it is perfectly logical to refute their beliefs by showing why the bible is flawed, and also by showing them that their beliefs conflict with that which is in the bible.
"I'm not touching those links."
Cool, live in your box.
"Again, people beleive things based off the bible (or is it really just me?). So trying to say they're wrong because this "verse of this page in this chapter" says otherwise is, again...stupid, IMO."
How is it stupid to for one to use the scripture that another puts their faith in to refute said faith? It seems logical to me.
"I've attended grown up with my entire family beiung christains, attended 3 different churches and hundreds different services in one, dozens in the others, gone to countless youth christian meetings (with thousands of christians in each) and I have yet to meet one, ONE, who thinks the bible is completely consistent."
I could easily say the same in support of my argument. Ultimately, it is just my word against yours.
Finally, do you even know what a personal attack is?
A personal attack is a directed insult. Example, "you are stupid." An argument is not necessarily a personal attack. Example, "I don't agree with you" is not a direct insult. The original poster did not present any direct insults towards the religious, and thus did not personally attack them.
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"Cool, live in your box."
I don't live in a box, nor have I. I know varying opinions are out there, and I aknowledge them. It's only when they personally insult me that I bother to step into their "box". Their "box" being their little area of ignorance to what faith is and therefore trying to dispute it using something that, IMO, is simply not useful in their argument.
Seeing as this is getting us no where, because you have no idea what I'm trying to say, I'm going to drop it.
I was directing my comment at the "arist" anyways. So you trying to defend their stamp when they only bothered to half-defend it is rather annoying.
All in all, this stamp is offensive and should have had a warning. The "arist" and you are both ignorant to this.
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And how is this stamp offensive? You have failed to demonstrate that it levies any personal attacks.
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As I said, it pretty much says "Christains are stupid, because they believe the whole bible, even though it controdicts itself." Or at least that's what I got from it, and the "artist" as failed to say they meant otherwise.
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All that it says is "God was never all loving." It never mentions the potential stupidity of the religious. You are making ridiculous assumptions about the artist.
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It's heavily implied. Not to mention they said this in the despcription:
"One of the most interesting quotes that I've seen expressing this hypocrisy in the Christian Religion."
My assumptions aren't ridiculous.
They made the stamp to draw controversy. They said themselves that the very topic came up in some class thy went to and people argued so much security had to be called in. Then I suppose they thought it would be a great idea to bring it to the internet and play the innocent "I wasn't trying to start a fight" card.
You have too much faith in what you think the "artist" was trying to accomplish. They just made the stamp to get Christians mad only to argue.
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"My assumptions aren't ridiculous"
Attacking hypocrisy in the Christian Religion is not the same as attacking the members of the Christian religion. Criticism of ideas is not the same as attacking those who hold said ideas.
"They made the stamp to draw controversy. They said themselves that the very topic came up in some class thy went to and people argued so much security had to be called in. Then I suppose they thought it would be a great idea to bring it to the internet and play the innocent "I wasn't trying to start a fight" card.
You have too much faith in what you think the "artist" was trying to accomplish. They just made the stamp to get Christians mad only to argue."
Oh really? So completely disregard the possibility that they may in fact actually believe what they are saying, and rather insist that they "just wanted to start a fight."
Please... relieve me of your baseless assumptions about people.
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Ah, so you block people who disagree with you. Well good for you. Congrats on proving me right.
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I already said I'd drop it. Lol.
I guess that's what atheists do, huh?
They shit on people's religions, calling them hypocritic, and then decide to say they're only insulting the religion that people believe in, so the people who believe in it shouldn't be offended And when someone is offended, they call their reasons for being offended "baseless assumtions".
They did just want to start a fight. And you're just continuing the fight.
I came here to defend my thoughts, albeit I was a little agressive.
The fact that you can't accept that it upsets people, and continue to insist that said insulted people's feelings and assumtions are bull makes you an...
IGNORAMIC ASSHOLE.
You have been blocked. 
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So automatically because it states a NON OFFENSIVE TRUTH.
Saying that God is not all Loving is a Truth, and many priests of the Catholic faith would say as such. Many of the Baptist faith would as well. So, as a faith, get your crap straight. Seriously.
Either he doesn't love everyone, or he loves everyone.
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I don't even know what you were trying to say. You can put warnings on deviations. One of which is "idealogically sensitive".
It's not a truth. Because it's a belief. You have to believe in order to take the bible as "truth". So that fact you say faith is crap and yet the bible saying "God is not all loving" is truth is a controdiction.
And again, that depends on what you believe.
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Does that mean you agree...?
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Okay, well, glad to here it.
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Well, you Christians certainly like to throw the "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL" remark rather quickly.
And who am I to care whether or not it is offensive to you? It's true. It says it in your VERY BIBLE. Your god is not "All Loving", and if you find the truth offensive, then it's probably best you get off the internet.
I also have a life, and it is without god. So far it's going rather well, thank you.
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Lol, actaully, I never throw that around. I may say "go to hell" but not "you're going to hell".
And that's the kind of attitude that poisons the world: "why do I care if I hurt you?"
That's the thing you don't seem to get. You say "your God is not all loving, because your bible says so" and yet it also says he is all loving. You can't pick and choose from the bible. It's more of "get the main picture" and evyone gets a different picture. Yours may be "God is evil and wants you to fear him or he sends you to hell". My view is "God doesn't let you step on him, but he's forgiving and sends you to do his work in helping and loving people."
Maybe I went about it wrong in my comment, because usually I'm not so mean. I suppose your stamp hit a nerve. I'll just claifiy: I am not a conventional Christian. I don't believe in mant things the bible says. I love gay people for example. But I disagree with you going about saying that Christians are stupid for believing that their God is "all loving". At least put an "idealogically sensitive" warning.
Yeah, like telling Christians that their God doesn't love them and that people go to hell because of it? Some life. XD
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For one, the little sub words at the bottom COMPLETELY contradict what you were trying to prove above. Not only did you say "God doesn't let you step on him (meaning he will punish you if you screw up), but he is forgiving etc."
And there ARE instances where he is cruel. And you can't deny it.
Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt for looking back on a city that she had lived in for how long. She was losing everything, it's HUMAN to fear change. God should have known that, but did he care, not in the least?
The Great Flood: So, people were being a little nasty, what does he do, kill them all, really? What of the animals that WEREN'T being so douchy, did he have a right to kill them?
And whether or NOT it struck a cord with you, why would I have to put an Ideologically sensitive warning when it is the TRUTH. God is not all loving, there are preachings of fire and brimstone in the bible, if he was all loving, do you think he would make such things come to pass? No. Not at all.
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Not really. I said I disagree with you and I was being mean. I never said I'd stop being a little mean. I just aknowledged it.
I never said "he won't let you step on him" meant punishment. In my BELEIF it means a warning and sometimes punishment to get the point across, but he doesn't hold it against you. He lets it go: forgives you.
Once more, you say that beleiving God is all loving is stupid, but then you just pull stories from the bible (which for all anyone knows could be made up, unless you BELEIVE). You seem to have a bit of a double standard.
You were asking for someone like me to come and defend my religion/beleifs. Don't go and be like "I put something up that completely insults some people's beliefs, with not warning before the image, and people come and argue about it! The nerve!" Lol. Put up a warning for "idealogically sensitive" and then maybe people will see the warning before the image and not get so ticked, because there was a warning.
And you say "why should I hide the truth"? You're saying if someone had a stamp that said "Hitler killed Jews" without any warning like "idealogically sensitive" that that'd be okay? If it was just out there, and any Jewish person could go into their Group watches folder and see "Hitlet Killed Jews" instead of the little dA block symbol. And I don't know if it's just me, but when I see the block symbol I then look to the title. And if the title is something that doesn't interest me, then I move on. I wouldn't have clicked on this if it had the dA block symbol, because the title didn't interest me. But because I saw the stamp, which ticked me off, I clicked on it.
It's not a truth. You are not "all knowing". XD You can't decide what's truth or not, especially when you pull it from the bible which you stated before controdicts itself. Lol.
Maybe he destroyed people's bodies to save their souls from their sins. Ever think of that?
I suppose not. Because you know everything, don't you?
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Oooh, WRONG. God does not judge you for what you don't know or can't control. A lot of those people in those theocracies in the Middle East will be in heaven because they haven't had the chance to accept the Truth. I know this is like blasphemy, but C. Diddy was wrong. Way wrong.
Secondly, the tree was there, but humans were told not to eat from it, and they screwed up. Every death recorded in history has been a human's fault, or Satan's fault, or both. Listen, if your parents tell you to not touch the stove because you'll burn yourself, and you burn yourself, it was your fault that you got burnt.
Hope I helped clear things up.
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