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RanmaCMH — The Joining - part 2
#alistair #bioware #duncan #ostagar #arlanacousland #serjory #thejoiningritual #dragonageorigins
Published: 2015-08-30 03:27:35 +0000 UTC; Views: 17174; Favourites: 281; Downloads: 48
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Hoo boy, this part. Poor Ser Jory. I had to think about this one a lot, this whole scene troubles me so much.On the one hand you have Jory who literally talks nonstop about his beautiful pregnant wife back home and how he just wants to do right and protect his family from the darkspawn. Augh. So it's understandable that he panics and tries to get himself out of this crappy situation once he realizes that there's a chance he might just die right there. Plus you have scary "zombie" Duncan who just keeps coming at him whispering "There's no turning back," I mean, that could have been handled better. The whole thing just goes south in every way possible, and it's such a brutal scene. Arguably the most brutal scene, to my mind.
On the other hand you have Duncan who has the worst job ever. He has to recruit the best. People that have the potential to save the world when you think about it. He has to find these people with incredible potential, and then he has to do THIS. Not the stabbing necessarily, but he has to poison each and every one of them. No matter how the joining goes down, once you drink from the chalice you are tainted. Once you are tainted you suffer terrifying visions, hear the voice of the archdemon, sense the darkspawn, and then (if you survive) in about thirty years you surrender to the calling and die in the deep roads. If you get a chance to save Thedas from an Archdemon you're going to die from that. This job sucks.
AND THAT'S IF YOU SURVIVE THE JOINING.
And you HAVE to recruit them. You need as many wardens as you can just in case you have to fight a blight. And you can't tell anyone about the joining ritual because you can't risk thinning the number of potential recruits.
So Duncan recruited Jory and Daveth because he saw their potential, and that they both had the skill and courage to be Wardens... and then he ended up killing them. Whether by the chalice or by his blade, it's the same in the end. Could he have let Jory leave? I'll let you make your argument in the comments. But any way you look at it, that would be an exhausting job, you would have to become a little detached to keep going.
From a writing standpoint they made good choice by making Jory a sympathetic character with a family he was leaving behind. Even though it hurts, it creates an emotional reaction that you wouldn't have had otherwise. He would have just been another "red shirt," and not a memorable moment in Dragon Age Origins. Smart. But owch.
The only art related thing I want to mention is that I thought this page was going to take a lot longer to post because of that damn stabby scene. That is an incredibly difficult pose to figure out if you don't have anyone to do it, and for some reason I could never find the time or the guys to help with that. I am so relieved that's done now. Whew.
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Comments: 82
In one of my AUs there's a Gray Warden who instead of being tainted by regular darkspawn blood, she was accidentally tainted by the Archdemon's blood and through some weird fluke it changes her body entirely, making her the first human archdemon and the first immortal gray warden.
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I love how wardens say they remain completely neutral in politics, but what if the wardens had to end a political war to defeat the darkspawn?
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This is where my respect for Duncan rose to new heights. Since the Joining is kept a secret - for a pretty good reason - there IS no turning back. There is NO other way than forward. You live, or you die, but no Warden can afford a coward slipping away and telling this to others. Especially cowardly braggarts like Jory, who'd just make it into something even worse than it is.
The moment Jory showed his lack of guts and commitment, he became an enemy. End of story.
No, Jory never gave me a sympathetic vibe. He joined the Wardens for flimsy reason, abandoned his family, and then drew his sword on a senior Warden. Because he might die. Cowardly knight.
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I agree with you on most parts, but I'm wondering if you'll indulge me a conversation over the 'abandoning his family'?
I mean, the way I see it is that he joined an army, a noble army, but an army just the same. As a knight - isn't this what he'd be doing anyway? Like the knights of Redcliffe - if his liege commands it, then that's what he must do. Plus, he'd probably be doing stuff all over the place. Why would it matter what order he falls under? It's not like he knows the details of the Order - no one does. He doesn't know it's a death sentence, or any of that. And since most believed the Darkspawn were completely defeated - they probably hung around all the time anyways. Or were at their own keep. I wouldn't be surprised if, once given their own keep, his wife would have joined him in the nearby town.
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At best, its terrible lack of forethought on his part. Even if the Darkspawn hadn't been seen on the surface for a long time, the Dwarves were still fighting them underground. And the Grey Wardens thus often took their fighting underground, too.
And it was clear by this time that the Darkspawn were a real threat. The army was moving to intercept a very large army of Darkspawn, so there's no way he couldn't know that Darkspawn were not only real, but extremely dangerous. Battles had already been fought. At this point, there wasn't to be any 'hanging around'.
Honestly, this is the guy that the Hero of Ferelden could open say 'Not smart, are you?'
Besides, it didn't matter if he knew or not about the death sentence. He joined an order that one simply DIDN'T leave. An order that was dedicated to fighting Darkspawn.
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I can agree with a lack of forethought. But I'm going to have to protest against it being a very real threat. In most origins prologues you play, it's possible to question how dangerous the war actually is, whether the darkspawn are a serious threat (such as Amell/Surana/Cousland saying they were told the darkspawn had been destroyed), and how bad the battles could actually be. Most people were under the impression that darkspawn had been completely eradicated with the last blight - and given orzammar's isolationist tendencies, isn't it possible that no one had actually known how bad it was? Furthermore, is it not also possible that the common perception of Cailan was one who was obsessed with stories and fables - hence Loghain's irritation within the ostagar battle plan meeting - and could have jumped at the chance, irrelevant of how big the threat actually was?
Yeah - but just because the Hero can say that doesn't mean it's necessarily true. Otherwise, how else could they insult so many people based on stereotypes?
Neither does one stop being a knight? His liege can change but his knighthood can't. Same with being a Templar? Alistair tells us that it's not well known how the templars use their powers or what, exactly, they can do. So isn't the only difference just that the templars are backed by the chantry and seen more often? Rather than the Grey Wardens who got banned from Fereldan.
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I still say killing Jory was the right thing to do. Jory was cowardly pretty much the entire mission, and then his cowardice came to the fore when he refused to take the risk that every single Warden - all of them clearly head and shoulders braver and better than he ever could hope to be - took.
I'm sorry, but I have zero sympathy for people who agree to be part of an organization that NEVER lets any inductee go, and never bothers to wonder WHY.
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Oh no, killing him was definitely the best decision. Duncan couldn't let that information slip out - way too dangerous. And Jory definitely shrank from the duty presented to him. I just think that he joined the Wardens with good intentions, and I also think Duncan must have seen something in him that marked him from the rest of the possible candidates.
He just, basically, screwed up as soon as he started realizing just how deep the rabbit hole was - couldn't handle it.
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I think he joined the Wardens for extremely shallow and small-minded intentions. And that Duncan made a mistake in judgement, that he realized and rectified by rightfully offing the coward.
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Another great page from you, and as ever, your expression work is fantastic. Think I've mentioned this before, but the way you're able to convey the plot and tone without any use of dialogue is really awesome. Well done!
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An aside, how the heck strong is Duncan? He just punched that sword through armor like it was nothing, geez.
Yeah, poor Jory, gosh darn it Jory, don't panic!
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I actually almost always strip everyone of their gear before the joining. While it started because I'm greedy and I wasn't sure if would allow me to keep their stuff if they died, I have since rationalized it through RP. The joining is basically a rebirth, if you survive it you are no longer who you were born as. You renounce all claim to titles, property, race, religion, and country. Your only purpose is to serve the wardens in stopping the darkspawn. Think of it a bit like the Gauntlet in the Temple of Sacred Ashes :/
This has the added benefit of it not being so odd that Duncan can put a sword through Jory's belly.
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I like this headcannon, bless!
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Ahaha, my thoughts exactly. I kept rewatching the youtube videos and they just sort of don't show you, but it's pretty much implied that he just stabs him straight through the armor. I didn't have the energy to try and adjust that for believability. XD
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'Tis the blood of the 'spawn, gives them Wardens strength un'atural!
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Well, there is a way to cure the taint... it happened before, once.
I believe that David Gaider is better at writing scripts than books and I'm definitely not a big fan of Dragon Age: The Calling, but it's there.
Also, I really love your style! The way you draw Arlana is just... adorable, I'd say. Although I've got a feeling that her sword is too small, especially the grip. And technically you wouldn't really carry a sword on your back, but eh, that's the way it's been done in the game, so no complaints there.
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I think I actually found a whole forum post or website on how ridiculous carrying swords on the back and dual wielding would be. XD So I'm definitely just going with the game over reality (like staves and bows... how do they even... is there a sling back there or...?) And you'll have to forgive me for any inconsistency in the weaponry or armor. I am literally the worst at clothing and backgrounds. I really love figures and facial expressions and animals. Everything else is a huge weakness and I DO need to work on it!
I haven't read any of the novels yet, although I would love to pick them up since they've incorporated a lot into Inquisition (from what I understand.) Is the calling when Fiona is cured from the taint? Do you have a favorite DA book? I would love a recommendation for where to start.
And thank you for the compliment! I'm so glad you found my work.
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Dual wielding is not THAT ridiculous, actually... provided it's a long weapon + short weapon (ie. rapier + dagger) combo. And nah, they do not use slings or sheaths; these are for mundane mortals. No, real badasses and heroes use magnets, it seems. Or it's just about developers being lazy? Huh. You never know these days.
Sadly, when it comes down to Dragon Age novels I cannot say which one is my favourite, as I've read only "the Calling", but I believe that you could read them in any order. And yes, "the Calling" is the book where Fiona gets cured.
It's an interesting read (hell, it's about young Duncan and the Architect, how could it be not interesting? It also explains what happens if a Warden does NOT die in the Deep Roads *shiver*), I have to admit that, but - to my disappointment - not a well-written one. I'm not sure who is the one to blame, the author or the translator, but as a self-proclaimed connoisseur of fantasy literature and a writer myself I was bummed by the book's style at some points. Actually, it discouraged me from reading remaining novels. I guess it's a good story, but not a great book.
Did they really incorporate a lot of "the Calling" into Inquisition, though? I'm not that sure, to be honest. I mean, yes, it's here and there, but that's definitely not what I call "a lot"; references are mostly about Fiona, and (optionally) about the Hero of Ferelden seeking for a way to cure the taint. There's a lot of "the Calling" in the DA: Origins' expansion, though - it's literally everywhere in "the Awakening".
Right, I forgot to +Watch you; I must fix that. ^^
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Totally feel you on the Wardens. It's an amazing piece group of heroes, because they undoubtedly have a good cause--saving the world from the zombie apocalypse with dragons, basically--but so much of the time there are people within it willing to do horrible, incomprehensible things to get there, which can also be twisted and manipulated, as we see in Inquisition.
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It's funny that you should word it that way, zombie apocalypse with dragons, because that is very much what the next page is going to look like....
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I made such a delighted noise to see this updated, gorgeous and expressive as always! The characters are so engaging.
I'm pretty sure Duncan has to kill recruits who refuse at this point. The joining is such a dark secret, I'd say Weishauppt has an order decreeing it. But yeah I agree it was such a brutal and shocking scene just like an 'oh' moment
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I think he does have to, but it just leaves you feeling pretty dirty, doesn't it? Like up to this point you have so much faith in him (or I did anyway) and then he gets a little murky in the morality department. But that's why I love the game too. It's a catch 22.
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yEAH I love how shady the Wardens are honestly, its one of my favourite things about the game. Like yeah Duncan seems at first this kind of gentle mentor type, but then he straight up murders a young father and its just 'oh'
Its a great catch 22, I loved each time the game did that!
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gosh amazing as always, expressions are spot on
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I remember thinking, "Jory, don't!" every time I went through this scene. heh
Drawing a sword on your recruiter is generally a bad move... *sigh*
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All he would have had to do was leave BEFORE THE JOINING. He was getting cold feet anyway! WHY JORY!!!?
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Oh man you are making me want to replay this again... even tho I'm trying to finish Mass Effect and all the Inquisition DLCs (before Trespasser comes out). I love this series <3
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Such a shame to have SO MANY AMAZING GAMES TO PLAY!
And I should pass along some advice that someone gave me before I played through ME3: If you haven't already download the free "ending" dlc and for the love of all that is bioware download the Citadel dlc.
I'm so excited for you.
And thank you!
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I was shocked and I hated that part ... But it also showed me how serious this Warden thing was that my character was getting into ...
EDIT: I forgot to mention, your art is gorgeous!
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Uuugh I know right?? It doesn't improve when you rewatch it. I feel worse, in fact. I think the surprise dulled some of my other feelings the first time around. Now that I'm watching it to see if I can side with one character over the other it's just... uck.
And thank you! This project has been so great for practicing the things I want to work on in my art. Isn't it funny that our games can do that for us?
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I keep rewatching the youtube videos (to make sure I'm remember the scene and to help with costumes and whatnot) and every time it's like MAYBE THIS TIME HE'LL LIVE.
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HA! I do the same when writing my fics! And yeah, I keep thinking the same. There's that bit of hope, because the situation is so realistic.
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I think the whole situations was just not handled well.
It was obvious that Jory was nervous, he should have gone first. That way if he lives, they have a recruit, if he dies the other two are a lot more stable and will probably carry through.
Even the way it turned out was a mess. Straight up murdering Jory is such a waste. They should have disarmed him and given him the choice: 50/50 you live or die with the potion, or 100% death to a sword. He had very little indication that refusing the potion would result in murder.
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I think Jory's reaction precluded any attempt to reason with him, he is shown panicking and drawing his sword to "defend" himself from Duncan before Duncan ever draws his sword, he also takes the first swing. I don't think I did so on my first playthrough, but you can ask Duncan about murdering Jory and he pretty much states that it was self defense (but I can't remember if he says what he would have done otherwise.) So while it was still horrible and I hate how it happened, you can't forget that Jory forced his hand pretty quickly too.
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This was the most shocking thing, when I first played the game. Daveth's death was like a slap to the face. But then there was Ser Jory, who at that point I was already a little sympathetic to. That was a punch to the gut... Like damn. Wow. Ouch. But I can understand the reasoning behind it.
"There's no turning back." Because you've just witnessed the greatest secret of the Grey Wardens and because you already committed yourself to protect and serve.
*Spoiler Alert*
This is why I warned Ohgren about the joining, I didn't want him to die, and gave him a chance to back out. Though I shouldn't have worried.
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Yeah, I had to warn Oghren too. But at least in that situation it's someone you have an established relationship with, you know Oghren would rather die than let you down or betray you.
Also he's probably had ale that was stronger, and worse, than that Darkspawn blood.
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From the comments about dwarven ale, I believe it. An the fact Ohgren makes his own alcohol out of... icky stuff he finds on the road... Yeah, definitely worse than Darkspawn blood.
"Whats this a sampler cup?! You trying to say something about my height?! Hmmm?!"
I was just like... "Dude. You want to drink the full bottle of the dangerous and toxic poison that going to taint you for the rest of your life???"
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excellent job on the stab scene!
if you have a family i dont think a warden job is the best kind of job for you..buuut i guess u get to know about the awful "side effects" only after...
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It's true, I would think that they would be lightly discouraged from joining. But I was looking up Jory's recruitment again and it looks like he was the winner of a tourney and recruited by Duncan. Since he won't stop mentioning his family it's impossible Duncan didn't know. I don't know, I would love to know the details of how that recruitment went.
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Good job! Man, this scene pulls at my heart strings. Oh, Jory.
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I knoooow. These scenes are so much worse when you have a baby too. What about the wife and baaaabyyyy
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I still mourn Daveth. And sir Jory too. But less. I dont know why but i love a thieves characters. Sorry for my language im to tired to think.
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Who doesn't love a good roguish character?
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Right. Good roguish charcters are the best.
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And here it is.
We have discussed Ser Jory and his fate before and I think that you have summarised him very well. There are those who dislike his character but to me he is one of the most true and human characters in DAO and his fate one of the saddest. Yes, he is a minor character. Yes, he appears for only a short time. Yes, he is a bit "whiny" but I'll argue that of all the characters of the game he is the one who acts as most of us would in the same situation. We would all like to be great and fearless heroes but giving the circumstances how many of us would act just like he did. I do wonder...
Someone also pointed out Jory's last comment about "There's no glory in this!" as a reference that he wanted to join the wardens just for the glory. But I don't think that it should be taken so literally. Jory is definitely not the same as Cailan, who is the embodiment of the "Just for the glory". 
And let's face it. It's more "easier" for Daveth to be more determined. What I have understood, he had practically nothing in his life which he held dear but Jory did have. A loved wife and not yet born child. No wonder Jory was appalled by the joining.
Eh, I got excited. 
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I think I've heard that people dislike Jory for being "whiny" and I just think that's unfair. Your last comment about Daveth having less to lose is such a big factor for me. It's easy to sacrifice yourself when you're leaving no one to grieve, isn't it? I don't think that makes Daveth less honorable, I just think that people that write Jory off so quickly haven't fully thought through what they would do if they knew that they would leave a child, a spouse, or any other family member who loved them or depended on them.
You made some great points, I totally agree with your estimation of Jory and his situation.
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We agree on Daveth too then. And no, it does not make him any less honorable, it just makes the decision and determination more easier for him. It always does if you don't have anyone in your life who would be dependant on you or who would care about you.
About Jory's recruitment; In the light what we know about it, I think that Duncan made a clear mistake. He shouldn't had conscripted Jory, ever. When talking to warden Jory speaks so much about his family (and with so much passion -> "She has the most beautiful eyes, my Helena.") that Duncan can't have been unaware of the matter. Jory clearly had all the physical requirements and some of the psychic ones too but emotionally he was newer a grey warden material.
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