Comments: 52
DeutschKatrin [2011-11-27 03:32:16 +0000 UTC]
Looks similar to Prunis vulgaris!
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chibiharuka In reply to Althytrion [2011-11-27 17:33:33 +0000 UTC]
Potted sounds like a very good idea!
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crazygardener [2011-11-24 07:03:07 +0000 UTC]
Nice!!!
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Ratabago [2011-11-23 23:50:48 +0000 UTC]
Delicate indeed. This is the most attractive shot I've seen of this species.
This plant is a pain. Locally it's known as branched broomrape or naked broomrape. It affects a very varied list of host plants including several Fabacea (medicks, vetches),lettuce, canola, members of the Asteraceae, and Solanums. Doesn't look like it's a terribly fussy parasite. It produces up to 40,000 seeds per plant, which remain viable for a decade or so. In South Australia about 5000 sq Km of land have been infested with this stuff despite quarantine measures.
Weeds Australia also says this stuff is native to Northern Africa, Southern Europe, the Middle East, and Western Asia. The US Federal Government list it as a non-native noxious weed. Perhaps the vulnerability of N. American Solanums is just because they haven't yet developed any resistance to this parasite?
Over here branched broomrape dies after flowering. Are you managing to keep the same plant going year after year, or are you replanting it?
I don't think I'll let the local politicians know it's also called "Cannabis slayer". They'd be releasing it into the wild to inconvenience some of the less reputable market gardeners here abouts.
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Ratabago In reply to Althytrion [2011-11-29 01:10:39 +0000 UTC]
It's the only native Orobanche. I think it's restricted to parasitising native Senecio species. But some of the weed people include clover, chickpeas, and sunflowers in its host species. I suspect they're confusing it with O. ramosa as they talk about it causing significant crop reduction. That seems vanishingly unlikely for a threatened species.
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Althytrion In reply to Ratabago [2011-11-29 07:06:09 +0000 UTC]
I fully agree! In fact, they should be more accurate in identifying these plants, even if Orobanche species are sometimes difficult to distinguish, especially when not flowering.
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db-imagery [2011-11-23 22:19:30 +0000 UTC]
wonderful image, kevin!!
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George-kirk [2011-11-23 21:52:18 +0000 UTC]
Beautiful
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Althytrion In reply to MesmerizedByNature [2011-11-27 13:31:50 +0000 UTC]
Yes, they're abundant throughout the Mediterranean region - but Oxalis pes-caprae is a wide-spread species there, as well, in spite of the fact that it clearly is of South African origin, and introduced not before 1800.
Maybe, there originally were two (sub-)species of Orobanche ramosa, one in Eurasia and the other in Central America, which both were rather specialized and not very widespread. Due to the introduction of Solanaceae from the New World, the American species came to Europe, and heavily hybridized with local varieties, thus forming this very vital form we observe today?
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MesmerizedByNature In reply to Althytrion [2011-11-27 20:12:36 +0000 UTC]
But as orobanche is a parasite, it wouldn't not as fast spread. Or not as often at least, as it needs to find and adapt to hosts. Other plants can spread very fast if the environment is right otherwise, but there is a slight difference in parasites I would say.
Other species of Orobanche does have a hard time surviving (at least in Scandinavia)and are often found in plantations were there is an abundance in host, and there masses of them can be found, maybe with help of a slight adaptaion.
The case with two populations somewhat alike that soon hybridized could be the case, but the idea that there would be two of the same genus that looked alike on different continents is not as possible, especially with specialisation such as parasitism. But some populations of orobanche that hadn't really found specialisation and that were spread throughout their regions would be more possible, I would say. Then there would be fast development if one O. sp was introduced to the other continent. ^^
And I think that introduction has happened both ways, if there were two populations.
The fact remains, Orobanche is a hard genus. XD
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Althytrion In reply to MesmerizedByNature [2011-11-28 11:46:15 +0000 UTC]
If two related species from different continents, which have a different genome but no hybridization barrier, are brought together, they'll hybridize in many cases, and the hybrids will often show a special vigor due to the heterosis effect. You can see this, for instance, in all the artificial hybrids of Cypripedium species from Asia, America and Europe: many of them are very vigorous and much easier to cultivate than the true species, and have therefore become ideal garden plants.
You're right, the situation for parasitic plants is somewhat different from that of autotrophic species. Orobanche is truely very specialized, and furthermore, it has a very high rate of autogameous behavior. This means that many species only have a small range of hosts and distribution, and feature quite homogenic genomes. This is also the case for local populations of widely distribued species, especially close to the borders of their distribution area (cf. here). So far, so true. In such situation, however, the introduction of new host plants (such as the American Solanaceae to Europe), in combination with the introduction of another, related Orobanche species (which doesn't not necessarily have to look similar to the European one) specialized to these hosts, can give a real push for the enhancement of the genetic possibilities (via hybridization), thus enabling the start of a radiative adaption to the new eco situation.
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MesmerizedByNature In reply to Althytrion [2011-11-28 16:07:46 +0000 UTC]
Firstly, Cypripediums are orchids, a family known for low hybridization barriers and such. But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm just stating that to call them subspecies are not very valid. I see now that I didn't really say what I meant. ^^ I wrote something first and then I changed some, but forgot to change it all... :S
But yes, I am well aware of populations of the same genus that hybridize when contact is made. I tried to state that to call them Orobanche sp. would be more legit.
And I think that when not talking about orchids, it would be the species not very specialised that would hybridize mots efficiently. And one more thing, there are more species that look very much alike O. ramosa in Eurasia. I don't know about American species though. :S
And your last statment, yes. ^^
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Althytrion In reply to MesmerizedByNature [2011-11-29 07:34:32 +0000 UTC]
Okay, I see what you mean, and agree!
Btw, not only orchids from North America and Eurasia hybridize, but there are also intrageneric hybrids of American and European species in genera of other families, such as Fragaria, Rosa, Vaccinium, Rhododendron, Iris. Since geographic separation is an effective barrier (and makes any further, genetic barrier obsolete), two species from distant regions can easier hybridize, sometimes, than two species that use to grow in similar biotopes, or even side by side.
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MesmerizedByNature In reply to Althytrion [2011-11-29 08:03:09 +0000 UTC]
But orchids rarely hibridize like that in the wild with their specilasation. But the thing with orchids are that barriers are not often in the actual fertilazation, but in the pollination, and therfore there would not be barriers against hybridisation. Therefore it's a bad example. ^^ In many orchid genuses there simply aren't barriers in fertilazation. ^^
I am well aware. ^^ And it's not very odd, as no barriers have had to be made, as there often are in species closely ralated in the same area, either by fertilazation or specilation in pollination and others.
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Althytrion In reply to MesmerizedByNature [2011-11-29 12:51:55 +0000 UTC]
Yes, you're right that the pollination is the crucial point in natural hybridization in Orchidaceae - but nevertheless, orchids do heavily hybridize in the wild! For instance, hybrids between certain Orchis species, or between Anacamptis species, or even between Anacamptis and Serapias often occur and can form large hybrid swarms.
In Dactylorhiza, the situation is even more complex, as recent genetical analysis has shown that there are a couple of species with a special development (such as D. viridis, D. sambucina), while D. fuchsii/maculata and D. incarnata (as true species) form a complicated system of intrageneric hybrids that is unbelievably variable in their genom (and habitus) and can more easily adapt to a change of the local ecological situation, therefore. For this aggregat, sometimes the name "D. majalis" is suggested - in a broader sense than before, since it includes many forms that have previously been described as species of their own.
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tigerlover2011 In reply to Althytrion [2012-03-19 08:36:52 +0000 UTC]
as a total botany nerd, let me get a word in edgewise!
yes, it is an absolute fact that species from in some cases opposite corners of the world resemble or even can be artificially bred with each other. the fact remains that all plants and living organisms for that matter, have a tendancy to become for any and all reasons, isolated in some way shape or form from other members of their population which results in the imperative process of natural selection of the fittest members and eventual speciation. this phenomonon occurs over surprisingly small distributions even in the same substrate as the parent specie at times. the opposite can be true ocassionally as well, for however unlikely reason. the orchid Liparis viridiflora is absolutely naturally cosmopolitan in distribution, occuring in tropical America, Asia and Africa while remaining for whatever reason the same with little local variation. other thoughts are within entire genuses as well, take Bulbophyllum, Cypripedium, Platanthera, Habenaria, and Vanilla as examples. Calypso bulbosa has four forms from a trans-polar distribution, asian, pacific northwest, eastern seaboard, and central European that differ only slightly. odder yet is the resemblance of members of Chloraea, Gavilea, Codonorchis and Bipinulla, to species in the Caladenia and Diuris alliance over 4000 miles away in Australlia.
the way it goes along is fascinating, the explanation I infer that fits these examples is parts of coevolution in paralell climates, hox gene switches that are dominant and maybe the varrying rates of competition and biodiversity, the catalists for new secies.
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MesmerizedByNature In reply to Althytrion [2011-11-29 16:36:10 +0000 UTC]
Yes, but those are when in the same area. ^^ I am just stating it was a bad example as there are no barriers in fertilization, so when miskates occur with pollination, there are often fertilized. And yes, that's what I'm talking about. ^^ But as they're specilazed that much, they don't ofen live for more then the first generation. And that is actually what I was talking about. ^^
And I know, Dactylorhiza are impossible. The only cause is that they haven't yet found their niche.
^^
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