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Pupaveg — #211: It's my choice
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#animal #animals #books #choice #comics #cruelty #education #farm #food #personal #respect #vegan #art #pupavegan
Published: 2017-08-31 11:55:04 +0000 UTC; Views: 1257; Favourites: 17; Downloads: 3
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If you ask someone who cares about animals to respect your choice to harm animals, you have no idea what respect means.Art
It's my personal choice
It cannot be called a personal choice when it involves harming a third party for a trivial reason, which is your desire to enjoy eating them / their secretions.
Morality is subjective, you can't prove it's wrong for me
Even if you think that morality is subjective, your ethics should still be backed by logic. They are not random, nor are they plucked from thin air. As such, the question is simple - do you have any consideration for animals or not? Most people would say that they care about animals, or at the very least, would not like to needlessly harm them. Farming animals for our consumption is needless, and so all harm visited upon them including their slaughter, is needless also. So your own subjective view should be to avoid harming them - if you have any consideration for them whatsoever.
It's just a matter of culture / social norms
Cultures and social norms develop over time. Whether it is slavery, women having the vote, or anything else, the fact that it was ever the norm or part of culture, is not a justification for it. If you think that culture is a justification, then if you look at other cultures, you must advocate every single practice that they do, regardless of how clearly unethical it is. That's not a rational point of view. You should be able to form a view on a practice regardless of where it happens. So if you say that killing dogs is unacceptable because your culture says so, but you think that it's fine if other cultures do it, consider the following: If someone is about to kill a dog in your culture, would you really say "Excuse me, can you please cross the border to that other culture where that kind of thing is the norm? Then I will stop caring about that dog". This is about the victim, it doesn't matter where it happens.
- Vegan Sidekick
More on the "it's my choice to harm others" subject:
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Comments: 38
The girl petting the cow looks like Princess Daisy.
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What are we supposed to feed our cats and dogs then?
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Whatever a person chooes to feed their companion animals has absolutely nothing to do with what they choose to eat themselves, and what else they choose to boycott. So whether or not you feel that your companion animals require meat to live healthily should have no impact on whether you buy animal products outside of that.
There are only two ways of looking at it. If you feel that your companion animal does not need meat to survive, and that there are alternatives that would allow them to live absolutely healthily - then it just makes sense to do that. But if you disagree, and you feel that it's 100% necessary to feed them meat, then in order to care for that animal you'd have to do that. The alternative is ridding yourself of that animal, which most people wouldn't want to do.
Fundamentally, these domesticated animals are being bred for our enjoyment, and then once they're born, they can create a burden on the meat industry. The breeding of the animals in the first place is the core of the problem. That should stop, and I encourage people never to buy from a breeder. Adopt from a shelter. That way you are not contributing to the overpopulation of domestic animals in need of a home.
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well humanity in general wouldn't be as far as it is without dogs though~
Living up north in Alaska without Sled dogs would've been flat out impossible and terriers made themselves out to be amazing pest control. Even today Bloodhounds are considered among the BEST way to track a criminal, especially in tight areas like woods. And of course, the grandaddy of them all, they are amazing service animals that help the disabled get around. I know a man with an incredibly friendly rotweiler that helps him in everyday life. Dog breeding, while some is for enjoyment, was at one point very necessary and even today they have myriad of solid uses, even when not concerning hunting or livestock.
And while alternatives do exist, many veterinarians still think that meat diets for these animals are in general healthier and more natural for the animal.
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I don't think that them being useful to serve us is an excuse to keep breeding them while there are millions of homeless dogs being killed by shelters every day. You can use that poor argument for everything, including slavery. As for vegan dog food: this is not based on any facts or evidence. Most commercial dog food hardly contains any meat anyway, but is mostly made up of wheat. Most brands contain only around 8% of animal flesh, and that's only animal byproducts like feathers, hooves, bones etc. and replacing that 8% with other protein sources really won't make your dog unhealthier. If anything: approved well-balanced plantbased dog foods rid many animals of their allergies and minimize the chance of them developing kidney disease, several types of cancer and other fatal diseases. It's why it was produced in the first place: for dogs with allergies. Beef and wheat allergies are very common for dogs. That doesn't mean that dogs who are fed a better quality meat based diet nessecarily live shorter: their short digestive tract is well designed to process meat. But unless someone is feeding their dog a crappy human vegan diet (which I've seen someone do before, feeding their dog potatoes, beans and rice, which will surely lead to deficiencies on the long run), an approved vegan PET food brand still has more pros than a non-vegan one, especially since it's also better for other animals and the planet, so I don't see any reason to feed my rescues meat.
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well I'm not sure breeding should stop entirely
I mean their job to to make sure all breeds of dog don't disappear forever, like a species of animal going extinct
it would be pretty sad if something like a rotwieler or a dauchand went extinct
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Well, as long as there are millions of homeless dogs being killed by shelters every day because they can't find homes for them, I don't think there's any excuse to justify breeding even more dogs, aside from selfish "I want a purebred puppy" demand from spoiled, greedy humans whom view animals as property.
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well you can't doom a species of animal to extinction either, that's just as bad
theres probably a much needed compromise in there
less breeding, more adopting for instance
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Well, trust me... with the millions of dogs running around the world, dogs aren´t going to become extinct anytime soon. And yes, people should adopt. It really makes no sense that everyone can just breed animals whenever they feel like it when there are so many being killed because of the lack of homes.
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I meant specific breeds, particularly ones whose original use, like dalmatian or terrier, aren't really needed anymore
we need to preserve these breeds
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I mean, if animals are things or not depends on how you define "thing", not really the amount of eggs in your salad.
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Definition of object: "an inanimate material object as distinct from a living sentient being."
Animals are not things. Animals are not hammers, tractors, iPods, chairs. They are not inanimate objects that aren’t affected in multiple ways by use or abuse. What they are is living beings, so no matter how you define "thing", animals are still, in fact, living beings. In fact: humans are animals (who just think they're something better). Non-vegans may objectify animals, but that still does not make them objects. By that logic, slaves are objects, too, as long as their owner chooses to treat them like one.
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I mean, if slaves are objects or not depends on how you define "object", not really what civilized people or the slave think on the matter.
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Objects don't have brains, feelings and emotions.
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That depends on how you define object.
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So if a woman beater defines women as objects, does that make them, by definition, objects? There is a difference between objectifying someone and actually being an object.
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It makes them objects by his definition. My definition is different, but what can I do. The definition of the people in charge is different and they could do something, but not every issue has a person in charge.
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So by your logic, you're a stone statue or an airplane if I define you that way?
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It makes me a stone statue or an airplane by your definition. Who am I to argue.
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It's awful rich for someone who completely disrespects others for fulfilling a dietry need simply because they don't believe it's a dietry need, despite being completely disproven by those educated on the subject, to talk about respect.
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If you are asking someone who cares about animals to respect your choice to needlessly harm animals, you have no idea what respect means.
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The problem is that "needlessly" part. Sorry bud, we gotta have animal products to live properly.
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Right. Me and the millions of others who consume it are ghosts. Solid argument, there.
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Just because you purposely misunderstand the argument, doesn't mean it's invalid.
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You said we "need" animal parts. I haven't eaten any meat for 8 years and my Indian buddies in the Buddhist community have also been 100% plantbased. If we "needed" animal products, we would be dead now. For our community, it's normal to reach an age like 120 or 130. For you Western people it's rare and special. Hm...
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First off, your Indian buddies in the Buddist community consume things like ghee (clarified butter), paneer (fresh white cheese), and yogurt. That ain't vegan nor "100% plantbased". Second, there has never been anyone who has reached the age of 130, the record is 122 (which was last held by a Japanese man who liked his sushi). Third, I never said you needed animal products to live, but rather to live healthy. You can live for a rather long time in an unhealthy lifestyle, particularily if you're popping pills to supplement the gaps in your diet.
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Sorry, but no. Originally Buddhism means practicing non-violence, therefore these original buddhists are 100% plantbased. They even take it a step further than I do, by even avoiding vegetables like garlic and onions, because those kill the plant and are therefore less efficient to the ground as growing fruit, seeds etc. is. And maybe you've never been there, but many of these people in communities have broken the record for the oldest person in the world easily. They just go unreported because they live in remote areas in harmony with nature. Similar cases count for the Japanese who still practice the old ways of living, 100% plantbased. A friend of mine's grandma just reached 129. The west reports only the rare cases that are reported. Growing over 100 is really rare for a non-vegan, those people are very lucky. But for plantbased communities who thrive on whole foods it's just normal. I am writing an article about it at the moment and will publish it in the future. If you believe that artery-clogging butter and cheese is what keeps people alive, you are very ignorant. Even if meat, dairy and eggs grew on trees, I wouldn't go back to eating them. They're class 1 and 2 carcinogens and diets based on it are extremely unhealthy.
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"Originally Buddhism means practicing non-violence, therefore these original buddhists are 100% plantbased."
Repetition doesn't create truth.
"And maybe you've never been there, but many of these people in communities have broken the record for the oldest person in the world easily. They just go unreported because they live in remote areas in harmony with nature."
So your claim is unprovable and therefore has no weight.
"Similar cases count for the Japanese who still practice the old ways of living, 100% plantbased."
Like I said before, the longest living person there liked his sushi. So this obviously shows you're conviently ignoring anything that goes against your narrative. 'Course, that's not too surprising.
"A friend of mine's grandma just reached 129."
Did she now? And yet no one else has ever recorded her going past the currently-held world record. Funny that.
"The west reports only the rare cases that are reported."
Again, an unprovable argument has no weight.
"Growing over 100 is really rare for a non-vegan, those people are very lucky."
Growing over 100 is really rare for a human in general. And no, your imaginary people don't count.
"But for plantbased communities who thrive on whole foods it's just normal."
How nice for your fantasy world.
"I am writing an article about it at the moment and will publish it in the future."
Writing words on a page doesn't create truth.
"If you believe that artery-clogging butter and cheese is what keeps people alive, you are very ignorant."
Well, that's what them Indian buddists are eating.
"Even if meat, dairy and eggs grew on trees, I wouldn't go back to eating them. They're class 1 and 2 carcinogens and diets based on it are extremely unhealthy."
Says the one who get their information from those that 98% of the scientific community disagrees with.
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It's sad that you're calling me and my family/friends from plantbased Buddhist tribes members "imaginary people". It just shows how delusional you are. Like I said, you're always free to actually check out my sources before judging them. My page will always be open to the public.
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"It's sad that you're calling me and my family/friends from plantbased Buddhist tribes members "imaginary people". It just shows how delusional you are."
It's delusional to not simply take your word on something...
"Like I said, you're always free to actually check out my sources before judging them. My page will always be open to the public."
Your "sources" are a bunch of website links. Those aren't sources, that's just the internet. Did you know you can source studies without website links? Crazy, I know (sarcasm). But because you don't know how to do that properly, this means you're not academically trained and therefore don't know how to glean the information from a study properly. And that's just the issue with the links you have for the studies, every other link is just on a webpage, and considering that this is the internet, is automatically suspect.
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Dude, give it a rest and let the straw men stew. They are impossible to argue with, so al you can do is wait for their arguments and them to die a natural death (discredited by experts and old age, respectively).
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I have given you a final reply on your other message regarding everything you have written to me so far. Please read it and hopefully I am clear enough.
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Have people actually used that argument against you? That is...quite ignorant. I mean come on, is it that hard to think of why vegans would take issue with why someone's choice of meal causes innocent things to die?
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I hear it all the time. The problem is that humans have victimized animals to such a degree that they are not even considered victims. They are not even considered at all. They are nothing. They don't count; they don't matter; they're commodities like TV sets and cell phones. We have actually turned animals into inanimate objects - sandwiches and shoes.
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It's at times like these that I'm glad that veganism has so many health benefits. Because both in and out of my family there are people I know that think about only themselves to the point where they've said that the pursuit of their happiness(not even the pursuit of ones own happiness, but the pursuit to make, for instance, bob jones, happy) is the most important and greatest thing that anyone can do.
I've seen this the greatest in one person I'm related to(whom I shall refer to as person 1) who thinks that the most important thing, morally and otherwise, that ANYONE can do is make person 1 happy. Because of this immense amount of selfish, delusional, hedonistic narcissism, I think that the only way that veganism will ever spread world wide is health and partially climate.
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Sounds like a selfish person. I also know a lot of people with the ME ME ME syndrome. Thankfully the amount of openminded and selfless people is increasing.
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but this is to the point of ridiculousness
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