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rubberduck3y6 — North America, 1884

#map #unitedstates #alternatehistory #america #northamerica
Published: 2017-05-10 19:30:21 +0000 UTC; Views: 43296; Favourites: 277; Downloads: 280
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Description The sequel to my previous map , showing the situation a century later. Again, the map is by me and the idea and description is by TheLev .

The Ambassador bowed and left. This was perhaps the most curious encounter in His Majesty's life: having a man, a rebel, and, as he reluctantly conceded, a patriot hold himself with composure before him, and convince him in what he was sure was was an earnest appeal to his good nature and good old sense of humour. The sovereign of the most powerful nation in the world could not help but appreciate a humility which was expected, but often forced, by those before him. The rebel colonies had been divided and fought over at great cost to the Crown yet - difficult as it may have been to concede - future relations between the two nations could not not merely be restricted to war. It had felt as if the Virginians and New Englanders were in an iron vice, yet they had refused to yield to British pressure. 

A hundred years on, the Virginia-centred United States had expanded beyond well beyond the old vice. While New England had seceded and prospered alongside Britain, Virginia had harnessed the power of the Ohio in an unstoppable manner. Jackson's four presidencies had made sure of that, even if the southern royalists had not been fully suppressed. Prospecting, agriculture, settlement, industry, and now railroads, had bound the Southern Confederation together, and the Slavers' Revolt now seemed a like distant memory, while Britain and the United States both sought to reach the Pacific coast first with their competing transcontinental railroads. 

The Revolution had been a pivotal moment in British history: great reforms had seen the emancipation of Catholics, the establishment of Prince Edward's line as the Monarch's presence across the Atlantic, Parliament taking control of legislative policy and the official creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and North America. The Empire too had gone from strength to strength, expanding in India, the South Pacific and soon Africa, and British interests were extended worldwide. 

Yet the United States was catching up, all the more so for being positively disposed towards their old revolutionary opponents, while a militaristic Germany seemed unstoppable in Europe. Britain's empire, so long a source of strength and prestige, was now beginning to creak at the seams, overextended, lightly manned and, most of all, distant - and no-one was more aware of this than the North Americans. Would the United Kingdom and the United States thrive or even survive the next hundred years against their opponents? And what about the new forces of Liberalism and Socialism which threatened to upturn the whole social order?
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Comments: 30

JasonkarrMauer [2023-10-08 18:47:19 +0000 UTC]

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sovietkiller2019 [2021-07-08 21:54:51 +0000 UTC]

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rubberduck3y6 In reply to sovietkiller2019 [2021-07-11 10:30:46 +0000 UTC]

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KantiaCartography [2017-11-27 04:17:24 +0000 UTC]

A very nice map. For future reference though, you mixed up Tlaxcala and Morelos. 

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tard15 [2017-09-18 00:32:56 +0000 UTC]

I love the evident stubbornness that the Southern Confederation has a West Carolina that is north of South Carolina and the US has a East Carolina that is south of North Carolina!  

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rubberduck3y6 In reply to tard15 [2017-09-19 21:04:49 +0000 UTC]

The four Carolinas is one of my favourite parts of the map as well!

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olavops [2017-07-07 00:01:32 +0000 UTC]

Very cool map. So there's a british House on the Americas? Where do they live, the White Palace? Also, how's slavery in the US? Have theybolished it or is it still a thing?

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TheLev In reply to olavops [2017-07-13 22:30:38 +0000 UTC]

Hah, although I did consider moving the US capitol to Richmond in the timeline rather than having a neutral location-The Royal Family has a few palaces around Albany, while a few settlements have evolved around Royal residences in the New World, for all the others its' Governor-General's residences

Ah-The issue of Slavery, this is a Virginian-led USA and New England's role in domestic policies is gone after 1812. As a result, the North and South push the issue while Virginia would very much rather take a middle ground in the name of order-North wants a full out ban and doesn't mind if they have to revolt to do so, South wants government approval for Slavery and eventually secedes (On the backdrop of a minor civil war in Texas on the same issue, as well as rioting in the Southern Commonwealth) Virginia at first tries to go for order but opts to eliminate the source of the problem by adopting a quasi-segregation of the south into Former-Slave dominated states and the remnants of slave-owning states. Yet it has no interest expanding that idea further west-there is no Missouri compromise, and in the end-order prevails over North or South. Oh and Lee rises to prominence keeping order in Virginia during the Lincoln Presidency and preventing that state having a civil war of its own (Along with North Carolina and Maryland) He gets the VP position for his work and takes charge of reconstruction.

The long term effect is that, with the creation of a plethora of Western states where Slavery was never an issue and the Virginian victory/compromise means that while times are good, there's order-when times are bad the North and South still have some axes to grind.
(Originally the story would look at a USA without New England, yet the only way to preserve a Virginian (Rather than Southern) dominance would be British retention of more Southern States)

Hope that cleared up a few things, glad you liked the map

Regards,
Lev

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bruiser128 [2017-06-19 14:11:31 +0000 UTC]

Interesting timeline you created here

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TheLev In reply to bruiser128 [2017-07-13 22:11:01 +0000 UTC]

Cheers, RD was able to add a fine bit of polish to the edges-it started off with a game, then an Alt-history series which proved too detailed

The project ultimately matured as a map, couldn't have done it without rubberdyck3y6 here-cleaned up the vagueness and the insight received made a significant difference

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bruiser128 In reply to TheLev [2017-07-14 01:00:37 +0000 UTC]

I doubt too detailed is even a thing

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TheLev In reply to bruiser128 [2017-07-14 07:45:07 +0000 UTC]

Hah, I'd agree-yet the level of detail took too much time to write out. I am, however more than willing to provide endless detail about this world when questioned

Detailed things and processes are indeed the most interesting things to study

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bruiser128 In reply to TheLev [2017-07-14 13:49:57 +0000 UTC]

Have you done any timelines yourself?

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TheLev In reply to bruiser128 [2017-07-15 11:52:16 +0000 UTC]

One or two, however the level of detail that I went into there would have warranted that of a part-time job so it barely got off the ground

Having seen maps like "The Grasshopper lies heavy" on Deviantart it seemed a natural fit, although if you have suggestions I'm more than happy to rekindle this little project

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bruiser128 In reply to TheLev [2017-07-15 14:11:19 +0000 UTC]

I will only believe you if I get a link to see them

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TheLev In reply to bruiser128 [2017-07-15 22:48:36 +0000 UTC]

Well for what its' worth, here are the humble beginnings that weren't nurtured into a full fledged story

www.alternatehistory.com/forum…

And it's less developed predecessor,  that was a useful lesson in what not to do
www.alternatehistory.com/forum…

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bruiser128 In reply to TheLev [2017-07-15 23:51:15 +0000 UTC]

Now I believe you and can relate. 

Though from reading it I realized no one really asked "Which other colonies could have sparked the Revolution?"

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TheLev In reply to bruiser128 [2017-07-16 08:49:06 +0000 UTC]

True, and to that I'd say Virginia takes pride and place among potential breakaway colonies-the very name implies Manifest Destiny, colonies up to New Jersey were settled partially from Virginia, while Bacon's rebellion had shown they were capable of independent action (Even if that action was pro-Royalist during the Cromwell years). Plus the way that colonists from Virginia overwhelmed the Maryland Catholic project demonstrates that Virginia not only was self-reliant, but could project power beyond their borders. There was a native aristocracy that fuelled the USA's demand for leadership before the Civil War and most importantly of all-by 1775 they already had a path to the Ohio River, that highway that Lincoln's ancestors and many like them colonized the interior.

It seems to me that New England got fully behind the revolution and patriot movement because they were wronged, while Virginia had run out of things to gain from Britain. New England's very symbol of the Pine demonstrated their ties to Britain, and their interests were hurt by British mismanagement.

Shortly-South Carolina, Nova Scotia and New York had mercantilist elites-they'd back the stronger player in the end but if the sides were equal they would choose the bigger market, fleet and trading partner-unlikely to start there unless Britain restricted trade. Florida, Newfoundland, Georgia, Caribbean Islands were too small to start something and largely still dependant on Britain for everything. Quebec should be high on the list but their own elite was thoroughly won over by Carleton before the war-it is possible that without him there would have been trouble although it might not have spread.
Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania and North Carolina were within Virginia's sphere of influence, yet it was the momentum of other states that took them along-North Carolina did have localist tendencies (The excesses of which the Regulators fought against) but that didn't spread.

What would your thoughts on the matter be?

P.S. Have any timelines yourself?

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bruiser128 In reply to TheLev [2017-07-16 16:17:46 +0000 UTC]

I honestly can't think of any plausible way of the Patriots getting 
behind a revolutionary war that started in Quebec.

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TheLev In reply to bruiser128 [2017-07-16 17:00:27 +0000 UTC]

True, such a revolutionary attempt would be both unlikely and arouse the hostility of the Patriots

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bruiser128 In reply to TheLev [2017-07-16 21:26:51 +0000 UTC]

Just wondering but what alternative governor could have made Virginia the spark of the revolution?

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TheLev In reply to bruiser128 [2017-07-17 14:19:50 +0000 UTC]

Could have been Dunmore-he was a bit of a maverick in his approach, supporting the Colony against the crown one year, the Crown against the colony the next. I would see a break happening about a decade or so later-when Virginian interests would seriously damage Britain's status quo and King George would overreact by sending a "Punishment Governor" yet either way we're looking at a far longer timeframe for a Virginian-led revolution, the men were there but the reason was not

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bruiser128 In reply to TheLev [2017-07-17 15:14:31 +0000 UTC]

Or maybe his war against the native american's backfires because 
he intentionally had his troops ill prepared to fight, so as to weaken 
any future revolts.

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TheLev In reply to bruiser128 [2017-07-17 21:40:34 +0000 UTC]

Could be, the potential was there-when half a century earlier the decision was taken to let the Colonies do their own thing-Britain had almost made itself irrelevant in Colonial affairs, aside from France in Senegal-I'd like to see an example of a colonial power from Europe having even a glimmer of integration in its' colonies, especially how they managed to hold on to Guyana, Guadeloupe and Martinique

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bruiser128 In reply to TheLev [2017-07-18 00:31:23 +0000 UTC]

Well the Anglo French War of that time played a large part in why the 
American Revolutionary War turned out it the way it did. Though the 
former also got involved in Mysore and the Dutch republics war with 
the British Empire because of it.

You can probably get what you want if the Revolutionaries win before 
the French and Dutch got involved. Meaning the French can send those 
resources to Mysore and temporarily halt the ambitions of the British 
EIC.

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alexleclerc [2017-05-12 00:51:08 +0000 UTC]

Flagged as Spam

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rubberduck3y6 In reply to alexleclerc [2017-05-13 16:04:56 +0000 UTC]

Thank you! It's nice to hear it's appreciated

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mdc01957 [2017-05-11 07:25:47 +0000 UTC]

Huh...I'm surprised the Brits were able to keep a sizable chunk of the South at all.

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TheLev In reply to mdc01957 [2017-05-11 19:05:33 +0000 UTC]

Bit of a stretch, but a hundred years of peace will do that-This is the map representation of a Virginian dominated America, without the influences of New England and the deep South, Democratic-Republicans galore.

Hah, not that Jackson wouldn't have tried-in this timeline the American intervention in the Napoleonic Wars takes place in the South with scattered clashes in the north, but with the same end result

Tried to base if off of defensible borders, but I'd need to see the ground myself to determine whether it could be held-would love to hear some local knowledge of the terrain there

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zalezsky [2017-05-11 01:10:26 +0000 UTC]

Stunning as always, I envy your style!

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AltruisticHedonist [2017-05-10 23:36:31 +0000 UTC]

Excellent Work!

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