HOME | DD
LoreC10 — The Mainland of the CUI
#ah #colonies #commerce #florence #genua #history #italy #tuscany #venice #alternatehistory
Published: 2015-07-02 00:30:52 +0000 UTC; Views: 4935; Favourites: 49; Downloads: 42
Redirect to original
Description
another focus from my AH scenario: lorec10.deviantart.com/gallery… , lorec10.deviantart.com/journal…this map shows the situation after the great war, in 1920
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
titoli nobiliari dei granduchi di Toscana:
[nome] Granduca di Toscana, Duca di Parma, Modena e Sicilia, Principe di Bastia e Membro del Supremo Ordine dei Cavalieri di Malta
Related content
Comments: 42
As a venetian, I love this!
Can you give me a bit of timeline? I'm wery interested about how Italy end in this situation
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
grazie per l'apprezzamento, e per il fave!
certamente, qui puoi trovare lo sfondo storico completo di mappe per questa ucronia:
lorec10.deviantart.com/journal…
chiedi pure se hai domande o vuoi chiarimenti ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Quindi da quello che ho capito, il punto di svolta è che Venezia e Genova decidono di non combattersi più ma di unirsi, giusto?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
esatto, attraverso la mediazione dei Medici
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Oh, now this is definitely cool! Although I'm a little worried how a disunited Italy will fare in the Second World War...
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
no world war two in this timeline: lorec10.deviantart.com/gallery… , lorec10.deviantart.com/journal…
"Italy" would have three armies, each of them pretty powerful also thanks to overseas colonies ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I don't know how to take it ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Let's just say I think we might expect a few divisions of the Catholic Church in the next few centuries.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Not to mention all those dialects of Italian gaining an army and a navy and becoming languages in their own right...
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
oh yeah, who said that a language is a dialect with an army and a navy? but after all, if Italian was still important when Italy was divided, i believe it would have stayed so, plus, don't forget that inside these states there are very different dialects of Italian so they couldn't avoid to use the standard language
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Or multiple standard languages. Remember, modern Italian OTL is based off the Florence dialect with a Roman accent.
For the record, the presumption is that it was Max Weinreich.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Modern Italian is based on Florence dialect and that's why the florentine pronunciation of vowels is considered the most correct in Italy, that's because Dante wrote his masterpieces in medieval florentine, his works date back to the XIV century, the POD of this timeline is more like during the first half of the XVI century so Dante and other writers from that time still exist, those authors were taken as model for the following literature, even when Italy was still divided
said this I don't exclude that other languages could develop, anyway I think the probability is quiet law, I mean if in OTL they didn't reach an high importance why should they in this one?? also, take in consideration that the official language of the commercial Union of Italy would definitely be Italian ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
...okay, you have a point. But trust me when I say that political divisions can never be taken too far when there are a lot of nations crowded together on a small peninsula jockeying for power.
(Plus, language divergence counts for bonus points. Imagine conducting trade in a descendent of 16th Century Tuscany Italian!)
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
you are totally right, but can we consider it a real political division? I wouldn't say so, the CUI would be something like a sort of european union, with the time this union would gradually end up with unification thought the fact of having a common administrative body would eventually lead to a slower process of final union because of all the interests and balance of power previously created
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
...I think I'll just say "fair enough" at this point. Once again, excellent work!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Ve(ry)nice map!
I can suggest some "correction" about names in Venetian part:
- Stato di Milano can be changed in "Lombardia Veneta";
- Territorio del Friuli -> Patria del Friuli;
- Stato degli Slavia -> Slavia Veneta
...and, because is an alternate history, the inner border can't be the same as the actual regional border. (I can suggest, and maybe, send you an interesing map 
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I'll answer in italian because it is more comfortable to me
penso che sia "inappriopriato" lombardia veneta poiché denota le provincie di brescia bergamo e non so quali altre, ed é chiamata così poichè era incorporata direttamente nella parte di domini veneziani dipendenti da venezia....comunque sia, ho pensato di chiamarlo stato di Milano per continuità con il ducato di Milano
patria del friuli può essere una valida alternativa, ma resta una mera alternativa...in più il territorio dà più l'idea di una zona periferica e magari di difesa contro potenze straniere....funzione a cui adempierebbe probabilmente il friuli
la slavia veneta!? Ancora inappropriato, poichè ad esempio la slava fiulana è direttamente in friuli, una valida alternativa possibile è patria degli slavi, ma resta comunque una alternativa, in più patria dà molto il senso di una etnia dominante, che gli slavi non sarebbero
ps: ho cercato disperatamente di difendere le mie scelte anche perchè non voglio assolutamente fare l'update, pena perdere un sacco di qualità come è già successo in precedenza 
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Si, io t'ho suggerito i nomi "storici": la "Lombardia Veneta" comprendeva i territori di Brescia, Bergamo e Crema; la "Slavia Veneta" storicamente, era una zona carsica della Repubblica Veneta abitata da quelli che oggi chiamiamo sloveni... provo ad inviarti la mappa per messaggio
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Oh cool! Is there a direct cultural-dialect border at the Po river?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It dipends by where you go on the po (if u mean in this timeline, dialect are the same of OTL ^^), thought these border are merely political, as mostly political-militar policty of this TL, would lead to ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Ah ok. Yeah cause usually a river is always settled and cultured on both sides
along it. If you look at the Rhein or Oder river in Germany, they were never
a border of dialects, and the Germans always settled along it on both sides.
That´s why the french claim of the Rheinborder is weird XD
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Mmm usually mountains and rivers are valid divedes between languages and dialects, but eventually sometimes these borders are broken, now we should ask, is it right? Should we try to re-establish the borders that nature built for us?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Mh rivers not so much, mountains yes, but of course not perfectly,
for example Upper Bavarian also influences into Tyrol,
and otherwise. It´s only very rough.
Only if the natural borders make sense.
It would not make sense to give Transsylvania to Hungary, even tho
the Carpathian mountains would be the perfect border, because there live
too many Romanians on both sides, so a border there would divide them in
a stupid place.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well, i can't see how a natural border wouldn't make sense, as for romania we have both the carpati and the tisza river to make natural border, but this is just a neutral geographical statement ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It makes not always sense, see the Rhein river, France wants our left side,
but there doesn´t live a single french, there is no direct french culture...
so why should France get it XD Only because it "looks so nice", that´s a evry
lame excuse XD
But Romania is split by the Carpathian mountains, they´re directly in the middle
beteween the romanians, not at the edge of that people, so how is it a border?
A border of dialects maybe, but not of the people.
Hey no prob mate, even if we don´t agree, we´re bros
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Vive la France dans ses limites naturels!
long live France in its natural borders! 
No, but, i mean that tisza river could be a natural border to a greater romania, including many hungarians though, carpathian can also be a natural border but to little romania, they could both be a border if we followed geographical criteria....
yeah, sure, no problem
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
U can troll me I´m used to it XD all do it here
I would say our border will be the Seine in paris now,
since the germanic Franken conquered it an reigned
in Paris then XD
nah seriously, in the west and south, there is nothing more
naturel and good as the language border, as there are rarely
language islands, it´s a rather clean ethnolingual border.
The east is more difficult, but also here a solution is possible.
See West and south is rather obvious:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia…
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Mmm, no not to me, you can take Grishun but Alto Adige (or whatever you call it) is our, plus ofc the rhein border is exagerated but today one is ok, the east? You can reach Moskow and kill all the slavs according to me
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well u told me you want Südtirol because of the Etsch (Adige) coming from there.
But this means, all borders of Europe are wrong, cause they don´t follow the water
system.
According to you, it must look like this:
media.heimatundwelt.de/omeda/5…
But I ask you, why are the people that settle in a region and their culture/ language more
important, than rivers or geology? Since people are what define a region and not water or stones
I would say, they can define to which country it belongs.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Peoples are volatiles, nature is not, peoples identity can be changed very easly, natural asset take hundreds of thousands of years to be changed, or do you think that Alto Adige was inhabited by germans since before the birth of the human kind or the same earth?
ahahah, i should have somewhere a map with main european states according to geographical criteria, it's quiet odd, but to me it's ok ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
That´s why country borders shift, it´s not a problem.
Before Germans there lived Romans, before them there lived even Celts,
before them the bronce age people etc.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Exactly, and that's why after german, italians will live in Alto Adige, it is natutal movement of population
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You´re so funny XD
Or Germans move to Lombardia, it has a german name anyway
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You mean for Longobards? Sure it does
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Lovely map. If you don't mind suggestions, maybe you could try and use the various dialects for each region? It'd be interesting, at the very least.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yes, good suggestion i made my mind on it but then i decided to use standard italian, even not to make mistakes
👍: 0 ⏩: 0